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"Smile when you say that - you tub of rancid ignorance..."

 
 
dlowan
 
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 09:58 am
Here are excerpts from a Washington Post article on the rules - in practice - of political debate in America. (Full story here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13356-2004Oct6.html?referrer=email )

It kind of made me laugh - does it remind you of A2k?

What would happen if Moderators were able to lock debates, and impose the odd time out on political debate in the world of real politik????


Debate in Parliament in Oz tends to be rougher and more vulgar than would be tolerated in our sister houses in your land - folk being called "scumbags" and other, less polite terms from time to time - occasionally accompanied by a trip into Parliamentary Time Out - and the Prime Minister enjoys none of the lofty prestige and isolation of your president, and no protection from the rough and tumble of hard and ruthless questioning in a sort of wrestling arena - but personal behaviour and peccadilloes are seldom raised - so in other ways we are more polite.

Swings and roundabouts, I guess.

Do you hanker for rougher debate in the real world, or pine for more courtesy and restraint?

"Smile When You Say That, Senator
In Savaging Opponents, Pols Are Mindful of Crossing 'The Line'

By Mark Leibovich
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 7, 2004; Page C01

Sen. John Edwards squinted into the camera in that earnest way of his and thanked Gwen Ifill for moderating, thanked the people at Cleveland's Case Western Reserve University for their hospitality and the citizens of Ohio for hosting Tuesday night's vice presidential debate. Then in his gentle drawl, Edwards extended this pleasantry to his opponent, Vice President Cheney:

"Mr. Vice President," Edwards said, "you are still not being straight with the American people."

Cheney, who was rubbing his hands together as Edwards addressed him, looked as if he was about to grab the North Carolina senator by his gorgeous hair and swing him around the stage.

And so began the 90-minute sneerfest, variously dubbed a "ruckus at the roundtable" .........where the rhetoric veers into the undefined zone between "spirited exchange of ideas" and "personal attacks." Some call it "the line," as in the line of decorum that debate participants should not cross, at risk of being deemed "mean-spirited" or, literally, "over the line."

In many cases, staying this side of "the line" simply means using code words in lieu of more charged rhetoric......

......... he wouldn't call the president of the United States a liar. That would be over the line.

Like art and porn, what constitutes a breach of "the line" rests in the eye of the observer.........

"Definitely one of the sharpest debates I've seen," says Alan Schroeder, author of "Presidential Debates: 40 Years of High-Risk TV." He says Cheney-Edwards nearly approached the nastiness of a previous benchmark -- the 1976 debate between Walter Mondale and Robert Dole, in which Dole bemoaned all the U.S. servicemen killed in "Democrat wars" through history......



........."Heck, we're not playing powderpuff bowl here," says Simpson, a close friend of Cheney. "Heck, my old man ran for Senate in 1940 and they burned his car." In other words, to heck with the "line.".........



.........In general, Wittman says, a politician can get away with slandering an opponent if he addresses the recipient as "my distinguished colleague" or "the distinguished gentleman from wherever."

Simpson often waxes nostalgic about Republican Sen. Wayne Morse of Oregon, who, according to a 1957 newspaper account, called his "distinguished colleague" Republican Sen. Homer Capehart of Indiana "a tub of rancid ignorance."

Those were better days.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,566 • Replies: 37
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 10:08 am
Hey, at least we no longer wear wigs and bathrobes.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 10:15 am
Real politik??? Commie bunny scum...or is it Nazi bunny scum...I can't remember. Laughing

Realpolitik: politics based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations. How do you feel about it?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 10:16 am
I love when they air the Parliament debates on CSPAN with Blair defending himself and people standing and sitting and calling out stuff from the gallery. The "distinguished gentleman" stuff followed with what can only be taken as insults is hilarious. I wish ours was like that. So much more entertaining... Not to mention truthful.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 10:32 am
Legend has it that in the 1950 senatorial primary in Florida Claude Pepper's opponent accused him of having a "thespian" sister and a "Homo sapiens" brother. I also seem to recall that he accused Pepper of being a "notorious autodidact."
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 03:19 pm
Well, I meant real politics, rather than real politik - hmmmmm - is there a difference?
0 Replies
 
Rhamag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 03:30 pm
As long as it does not become childish, I am in favour of a more spirited debate style. It gives the impression to me that the politicians care more about the subject matter than their public image, which is what politics is supposed to be about - content over style.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 03:30 pm
dlowan wrote:
Well, I meant real politics, rather than real politik - hmmmmm - is there a difference?


These days I'm not so sure, but 'politics' is a general, and 'realpolitik' is a specific, which can sadly be bent to strange conclusions. Anyway, here is more info: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/realpolitik

Oh, stop teasing me already. This post is for the benefit of others. :wink:
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:01 pm
Lol - oh, I know - I was using real politik for amusement value, you stupid CLOWN!!!!
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:03 pm
I knew that bunny, but some may have missed it. Last time I checked, this is still "Able 2 Know," yes? Laughing
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:03 pm
And yer mum wears army boots.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:10 pm
And yer's got caught in a snare...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:18 pm
cavfancier wrote:
And yer's got caught in a snare...


You wouldn't EAT a poor, wee Bunny, wot got caught in a snare, would you, Mr Chef????


http://www.jeffandlauren.net/old/lauren/old/plush/web/sadbunny.jpg


(This may as well be a digression thread - it ain't gonna work as anything else!!!)
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:29 pm
With a little mustard sauce, sounds good.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:49 pm
I'm really, really tough...
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:49 pm
dlowan wrote:
cavfancier wrote:
And yer's got caught in a snare...


You wouldn't EAT a poor, wee Bunny, wot got caught in a snare, would you, Mr Chef????


http://www.jeffandlauren.net/old/lauren/old/plush/web/sadbunny.jpg


(This may as well be a digression thread - it ain't gonna work as anything else!!!)


I woudn't eat that one, it's clearly full of beans.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:56 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Legend has it that in the 1950 senatorial primary in Florida Claude Pepper's opponent accused him of having a "thespian" sister and a "Homo sapiens" brother. I also seem to recall that he accused Pepper of being a "notorious autodidact."


That's hilarious!!!!


I cannot possibly excuse the content - but it is hilarious!!!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:57 pm
squinney wrote:
I love when they air the Parliament debates on CSPAN with Blair defending himself and people standing and sitting and calling out stuff from the gallery. The "distinguished gentleman" stuff followed with what can only be taken as insults is hilarious. I wish ours was like that. So much more entertaining... Not to mention truthful.


Heehee - thr "Mother of Parliaments" - and we sure take after mummy!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:59 pm
Rhamag wrote:
As long as it does not become childish, I am in favour of a more spirited debate style. It gives the impression to me that the politicians care more about the subject matter than their public image, which is what politics is supposed to be about - content over style.


Hmm - hard to know when it becomes childish though!

Welcome, Rhamag - where you from? And what is your parliament and political debate like?
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 05:00 pm
I wish for rougher debate, yes! I think they should be able to goad each other into piques of rage. It'd show some true colors. I also wish that part of the debate process was answering questions offered by 'ordinary' americans.
0 Replies
 
 

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