What do you think the dutch people are?

Yeah, "maar" can mean different things. But "ja, maar.." is pretty much the same as "yes, but.."

Thanks.

rudeness can be found in any nationality that's very true. as for dutch people everything I mentioned is socially very acceptable among cloggies.

Cloggies? <raises eyebrow>

You realise you're being pretty rude yourself, right? I mean, just checking .. I kinda enjoyed your vent, actually. ;-) You got a couple of good points for sure. Just hope that you're aware of the irony of making loud, sweeping, know-it-all pronouncements about a people you judge to be loud, arrogant know-it-alls ;-)

Anyway, as a Dutchman myself, no, not all of those behaviours are "socially very acceptable". Plenty of Dutch people complain about them too - the talking loud on cellphones, for striking example, is a perennial annoyance to most Dutchmen as well. Am kind of having a hard time believing you've only met Dutch people who thought that was A-OK ... after all, for one thing, Dutch people love to complain. :-D

Clearly I must have been in the wrong environment and dealt with the wrong people or you've lived too long abroad and forgot how dreadful they are. I like your style though! I admit I amplified a few things here and there. I actually met some very nice folks here but they seem to be a tiny minority. A Dutch friend of mine who lived abroad and came back after a few years admitted that he had a hard time adapting again to his own country. He told me that he only realized that since he had been abroad (various places) and the contrast was too obvious to ignore.

One funny anecdote. The event took place a week ago at Haarlemmermeerstation in Amsterdam at 8.30 in the morning. A woman got on the bus via the doors in the middle of the bus (whereas you're supposed to step in at front to show your ov chip card) she scanned her ov card (similar to the oyster card in england for those who don't know what ov is) and started looking for a vacant seat. Suddenly the driver started yelling in the mike: " hey jij daar, ja, jij! doe niet alsof je mij niet gehoord hebt! jij met je rode rugzak! Je moet vooraan instappen! Jeetje!" (hey you there, yes you! and don't pretend you didn't hear me! you have to step in at front, jee) Obviously the woman was not Dutch and had no idea what was going on until a passenger tells her what the driver has just yelled. Then the woman walked to the front and there the driver continued yelling at her only this time in English. By that time of course all the passengers were watching and at least 20 pairs of eyes were starring at her. It was obvious that the woman was totally shocked and humiliated. She then checked out (swiped her ov card) in front of the driver and told him gently: “no need to make a scene sir, since you are so rude and impolite I'd rather wait for the next bus than continue my journey with you. Good day. And she got off the bus. The driver then said (very loud) in a very stupid way:" tja, dat moet je zelf weten he! (suit yourself, or it's not my problem, do what you want).
--> Now what do you make of that?

<stifles laughter>

Oh dear...

Yes, that's definitely a classic. It's true, Dutch bus and tram drivers are seriously and thoroughly the most opinionated, cranky fucks you'll ever meet. Hungarian bus drivers will close their doors just as you come running up and ride off right in front of you, but they keep mum. The Dutch ones are ... seriously cranky.

Sometimes it's funny too, though. I remember an Amsterdam tram driver in a rebellious mood who proceeded to announce every stop in a completely different, heavy accent. And one cracking jokes in Dutch about tourists getting off. I also remember a sighing train driver who drily commented, finally, after the train had stood still in the middle of nowhere for over ten minutes: "ladies and gentlemen, as you can see, we're standing in the middle of a field. We are waiting for a red light. We have no idea why it's red either. We'll keep you updated." - and then, when we eventually reached Utrecht, "ladies and gentlemen, we are now finally reaching Utrecht Central Station."

But hey, at least they don't randomly change the trajectory of their ride the way they do in St. Petersburg. Three times in the month I was there, in different places, the driver suddenly mumbled something long, everyone got off, and the tram headed in a completely unscheduled direction. By the third time I'd gotten smart enough to recognize that when everyone else gets off, you ******* get off too, cause you don't know where the hell you will end up. :-)

Many Dutch buses and trams have started operating with these pre-recorded voice announcements of the stops. I am pretty sure that wasn't just because of cost and efficiency considerations. ;-)

Let's be honest. This country is one big village in the middle of Europe. Dutch people seem to be OK with everything as long as they are safe and secure. You have to shop in the same stores, do the same things... After a while you get sick of seeing the same towns throughout the country. Living here for a few years is fine but for the whole life? I would go out of my mind.

Since I'm a frequent sponsor of the Netherlands (via the Centraal Justitie Incasso Bureau), I suppose that my opinion about the Dutch is (now) widely biased ...

I think the Dutch people are celebrating today.

Very happy people in the east of the Netherlands

It's funny how when I think of kind of person, I immediately think of the one or two I've met. French people are mean on the outside and incredibly sweet once I know them. Germans will contradict anything I say. Iraqis are straightforward and just. New Zealanders are crazy. Africans are open and compassionate. Columbians have common sense. Irish are completely normal until somebody asks if they're Scotch... then they go nuts. Brits are the only ones that seem just like me. Which I understand would be an insult. I'm American.

Well beside that, many Dutch are so black and white minded! They look to any subject or situation black or white! Hilarious man =) lol...

(Many) Dutch, they seem like they don’t know how to express their feeling in a relation, they are shy or scared to pull it out somehow.. Believe or not girls are more conservative than Asia!!

About friendship or relationships, many Dutch are narrow minded they have their own friend profile which comes from locals around and influences big time =)
The Netherlands is just 9-5 farmer minded developed country =))

well, i'm something between german and duch, and so i know both stories a bit. duch people don't think they are more then anyone else, but just don't say 'please' or 'thanks' as much as in other cultures. they do'nt learn it. if we see a englisch tv-serie, or an americain film, (it's always with subtitels, so we still hear the original voice), it's to us as they are exagerating, whith al there 'please' and the people screaming out loud if they see something they like.

and about the duch people that don't speak englisch- if the schoolbooks are in englisch, and maybe the teacher speaks englisch, that doesn't mean the SCHOLARS talk englisch. the books are englisch because that's cheaper. the teachers speak englisch because that's 'modern' but verry many duch people don't speak englisch good enough to have a normal conversation. you can't learn a whole language in 8 years school. especially not if you do it for a grade, and not to speak to native speakers. and the most scholars learn to get a (barely) good enoug grade.

Hi Amethyst,
I was thinking of studying at an international university in Holland aswell and I need to know what to expect. Do you have any more insights about this? Please email me on [email protected].
Thanks a lot

The Netherlands is a mixed bag for me.

The good things is that the country functions extremely well - the countryside is beautiful, everything in small towns is quite quaint, old-fashioned and cute.

The people are attractive, keep themselves in good health and although their cooking is not excellent, at least most of them cook and have good parenting skills.

The relationship between the sexes is pretty good - very little sexism, the women are independant and tough.

The people are however quite annoying. They don't seem to be very calm/content. They are always bragging about something and always trying to "one-up" you.

They have absolutely no social skills/social charm. You have no idea what they truely think about you, as like one poster said, they never compliment. I always get the idea that they don't like me because they are never warm. Don't waste your breath trying to be polite to people as they don't understand it, and may look at you as if you are insane if you try to make too much small talk. As a foreigner I found it quite difficult to make friends, as they like to club together with other Dutch.

Quite a lot of Dutch tell me constantly that I am "very friendly" and "very nice" and this is the best compliments I have had so far. I realised I may be too nice and so have had to start developing my inner rude bitch!

The British humour does not go down well. They are too practical and matter-of-fact to appreciate off the cuff remarks. Everything has to be logical and make sense which can get a little... well, dull.

On the other hand, they are very smart, in fact - I would say they are the smartest nation in general that I have come across and it is nice to speak to informed people who are blunt with their opinions. Their English is amazing. You can learn a lot.

Most of them are actually pretty friendly when you get to know them after a long while and always willing to help you out. If you need advise - be prepared to be WELL advised! They can be cool and a lot of them are hard-working and ambitious which is great.

So, a mixed bag, really. Better to be informed about them before you go there as their directness shocked me.

When a guy told a teacher that she was talking too much "off topic" and he wanted her to get back to the subject at hand, it certainly surprised me to say the least. It surprised me even more when she told him he was quite right.

Hi Boleyn,

I just replied to Amethyst because I thought it was his/her post! My question was, I am also thinking of studying at an international university in the Netherlands, but had some bad experiences with the Dutch. Please email me on [email protected] to share your experience!

Thanks

Hi. I'm from The Netherlands and have to say that we have in fact 12 provinces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_the_Netherlands
North- and South Holland is just about 1/5 of the whole county.

On topic: the main reason for me that I don't always speak english when foreign students are around is that I do not feel 100% comfortable when speaking it. I can not express myself very well in english, so I rather use dutch when telling an very interesting story about what bogus things I did that day.

..But a lot of students will speak english when you are around. Perhaps you should become friends with them?

engliSH

Hello,
I am from the Netherlands and have been reading some comments here. My conclusion is that some behaviour like talking in Dutch, so the foreigner don't understand what they are saying depends on what kind of person you are. I wouldn't do such thing. And generally the Dutch are not arrogant but tolerant. It can be factually proved. The best way is to go to The Netherlands and meet different Dutch people. After that you can make conclusions about our country.

The Dutch seem to be abnormally tall and physically strong (and attractive). They are mistaken for being rude, but it's their way of being practical and direct. Too much small talk is seen as not touching the subject at hand. The Dutch seem discontent but it's their way of getting things done. They have a very crowded infrastructure and land. It may be that that's the reason why they take to their privacy. They do speak their languages fluently (at least English). They are not known for their charming nature, but once you get to know them they'll take care of you and will go to great lenghts to do so. They don't tend to spend money but that is their sober style of life. Most things do function great though. It does seem like being overorganized. I suspect that they're robot's Their dislike of Germans is strange because they're closer alike than the Dutch would care to admit. (and so is their language)