The great bible book club (a rant/discussion)

You don't accept that you live under (moral) restrictions too. Being an atheist doesn't free you from living under beliefs that you accept as true even though they aren't based on provable facts.

In this way, atheists are no different than any other religion.

For example, many Atheists believe that humans have intrinsic rights that every society should follow, even though there is no rational source of these rights. These human rights restrict human behavior as much as any religious belief.

You believe in human rights, don't you Edgar?

Humans are animals who evolved and base their civilization on whatever works, each group and nation adapting to the situation on the ground. The rights I may or may not embrace may or may not be embraced by another culture. It is a mechanism of society's survival. Trying to trap an atheist in a box called religion is the equivalent of calling a bat a bird because it too can fly.

The obvious difference is that the bat could care less about whether you call it a bird or not. It is illogical that atheists get so upset about the very word "religion". I don't know why you use the word "trap"... you don't trap bats by calling them birds. You don't trap a tomato by calling it a vegetable.

As a anthropological concept, religion functions as a way to base a civilization. Our current societal beliefs in human rights and equality function very similarly to other values espoused by societies that we would both characterize as "religious".

Humans are complicated. Words like "religious" are often useful to try to compare and explain the social beliefs of different cultures and people within a culture. We can discuss them.

The emotional knee-jerk rejection of the word "religious" by people who self-identify as atheist is interesting from a sociological perspective.

I don't get upset. I point out the error. It is the religious constantly hammering at atheism who are upset. The emotional knee jerk rejection of atheism is interesting from a sociological perspective.

Much of what is called "atheism" is really an opposition to religion and the impact of religion on society. Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you have to oppose religion.

Drawing such a clear line between religion and atheism isn't important to people who don't oppose religion.

Religion is not society. Religion is an attempt to make society conform to some shaman's notion of metaphysics and morality. Societies have endured the burden for centuries, while bending the rules of religion as necessary so they can function. The religious view atheism as a challenge to the power and authority they hold. An atheist does not need this claptrap.

You are making my point Edgar. You are opposed to what you see as "religion". If you define atheism as "lack of belief in a deity", the opposition to religion is not part of that.

You have already agreed that each society makes its beliefs on "whatever works" (your words not mine). That doesn't mean that your beliefs about metaphysics and morality are any better than the shaman's beliefs. That is my point. Every society has needed some belief system on which to build our common beliefs about morality and meaning. Our society is no different.

You and I (since we are part of the same culture) share beliefs that humans have intrinsic rights, and that equality and freedom are high moral values. You and I both want society to conform to these values. Like the Shaman, our beliefs about morality and metaphysics are based on "whatever works" within our society context.

How are you and I any different than the shaman?

You insist on religion as meaning everything. It's hard to go against everything. Your arbitrary bestowing of the term religion on everything in existence outside of rocks and dark matter makes it hard to discuss it at all.

Someone with no vested interest can look past face value as well, e.g. comparing symbolic and overall interpretations, etc. of the various religious denominations, they just don't buy them.

Yes they can. It is nice to see it sometimes

You are full of poop. That's like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

That's why there's so many threads on not collecting stamps and precious few on atheism. Those people who don't collect stamps are really passionate about it.

I started a thread on people who don't collect stamps.

http://able2know.org/topic/266630-1

It turns out that you can not collect stamps without getting all bent out of shape by people who do collect stamps. I got nothing from the non-stamp collectors; no snarky responses, no self-righteous defense of their non collection, no sense of superiority. The non-stamp collectors had no agenda at all.

Atheists aren't anything like the non-stamp collectors. And that is the point.

You have yet to establish an agenda for atheists. The common threads between atheists here seem to be (1) self defense, (2) correcting misinformation posted by over zealous believers, (3) a person's curiosity for a topic so many find of interest. I can't think of another atheist on a2k that shares my thoughts and agendas.

We are here having this discussion on a thread about the Bible. The only reason for atheists to be here is to oppose the Christian religion.

Opposition to religion in society is an agenda.

Think of all that non-stamp collectors have to deal with...

1) Stamps are sold and promoted by a government agency.
2) Stamps are required for some government services (until recently this included the collection of taxes).
3) Some restaurants and supermarkets pass out stamps (for contests and other marketing) un-solicited to promote their products.

In spite of all this "persecution", somehow non-stamp collectors get along much better than Atheists do.

There you go again. Planting an agenda for us, instead of letting atheists decide what they are up to.

Nobody gives a **** about your stamp collectors. If you go through the index of threads about atheists, the majority are started by Christians excoriating atheism. I generally let the religious arguments slide anymore, because nobody comes up with something original. Now and then I see a post that draws me in. People who obsess about atheists as do you and some others on here get boring and tiresome after a bit.

My point exactly.



I don't think that a non-stamp collector would ever be drawn in to a stamp collecting thread.



I love irony. This is not an atheist thread. If you didn't have an agenda, there would be no reason for you to be on an explicitly religious thread. And, you wouldn't feel any need to respond when I tell you that you are acting an awful lot like a stamp collector (or a person who in fact has religious beliefs to defend).

I might, if it were started by Smileyrius. BrotherAugustine, maybe not so much.