This whole BIG thing about voter suppression.

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Why does anyone want to think that? I mean if the government wants to suppress voters why not just fix the election? Just pretend there's a vote and fake the count. After all YOU didn't count the votes right, so how do you know the election is not already fixed?

On the other hand I think some voters SHOULD be suppressed. Legal voting age should be raised to 25. I mean that's the popular age that you are allowed to rent a car right? So does everyone think choosing the future of our nation is LESS of a responsibility than driving a rental car?

This is the BIGGER problem in this nation is the young progressive liberals who are taught by our liberal colleges and media that the rich and republicans are bad and that hating the rich and "helping" the poor is good. All this big talk about voter suppression blah blah blah and you know what, I think people under 25 shouldn't vote. Some young people (my brother included) probably never had a real job in life, don't truly understand what it means to be a responsible adult, and probably think that if everyone gets along, we'll live in Utopia.

Well, they need a wake up call. Many of those so-called "evil rich people" earned their money and paid their taxes, by working hard and making the right choices. Sure, there may be a few bad apples who cheated on their taxes, but these people does NOT represent the upper class as a whole. And what's wrong with inheritance? These liberal youngsters have so much hate perhaps because their daddy isn't rich and their hate is entirely driven by jealousy rather than their pretend benevolence. And when you ask them how much did they donate last year out of their own personal account -- ZERO. They want others, honest working people to bear the burden of their idealism.

Yet when questioned, they couldn't come up with a better argument but only respond to conservatives with insults and name calling, much like some middle school fights. Why should we want these people to vote?

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@Angelgz2,

James 5 wrote:

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.

Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire.

You have laid up treasure in the last days.

Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.

You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.

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Why am I not surprised that this call for voter suppression is coming from an apparent uberconservative?

When you're 18, you can enlist in the militaryand ;possibly die for your country. In times of war, you can be drafted at 18, quite possibly against your will, and die for your country. If you're old enoough to die for your country, you're old enough to have a say in the running of it.It's really very simple.

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@Angelgz2,

Quote:

On the other hand I think some voters SHOULD be suppressed.

What you really mean is that you don't want Americans who disagree with your right wing views to vote.

Quote:

Legal voting age should be raised to 25.

18 year old American soldiers are old enough and patriotic enough to fight and die for our country. To suppress these brave soldiers the right to vote is about as un-American as anyone could possibly get.

Quote:

This is the BIGGER problem in this nation is the young progressive liberals who are taught by our liberal colleges and media that the rich and republicans are bad and that hating the rich and "helping" the poor is good.

I don't think people hate rich people just for being rich. People might dislike some rich people because of how they treat less fortunate people or for their greed of not wanting to give back. Both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are probably two of the richest men on the planet. Both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are loved, admired, and respected. By the way, the both of them have given Billions, not millions, I said Billions with a B to charity. They do this because they are caring and compassionate. Everyone has their own moral or religious beliefs. I'll just say helping the poor is caring and it is good. Helping the poor is also the Christian thing to do.

Quote:

Why should we want these people to vote?

Because they are Americans.

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Quote:

67-year-old Leroy Switlick is angry.

He's angry because he's made three separate trips to the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) office in Milwaukee to get a photo ID so he can vote in next month's general election.

Each time he's come away empty-handed.

Leroy has voted in every presidential election for more than 40 years, but Wisconsin's new voter ID law means that even though he's registered, he will not be able to cast his ballot without showing photo ID such as a driving licence or passport.

"It's silly," he says.

Switlick, who has been partially sighted for most of his life, never learned to drive - and so never had a driver's license. He was not previously required to have a state-issued ID for any other purpose.

"The first question the man behind the counter asked me was 'Can I see your photo ID?' Now if I'm coming to get a photo ID, how can I already have a photo ID?"

Each time he visited the DMV, he took a satchel full of documents including his birth certificate.

But the DMV never actually examined his papers.

On the second visit, the official he had been told to ask for simply didn't show up; and on the third occasion, accompanied by a lawyer, he was told the computers were down, though officials at DMV's head office told his lawyer later there had been no record of a computer problem on that day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37569855

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

When you're 18, you can enlist in the militaryand ;possibly die for your country. In times of war, you can be drafted at 18, quite possibly against your will, and die for your country. If you're old enoough to die for your country, you're old enough to have a say in the running of it.It's really very simple.

That's the number one thing I always hear. Let's not forget. Military isn't a democracy -- it's a total dictatorship by ranks. So when you are 18, you get drafted and defend your country, but you make no decisions as to battle strategies. So by your argument, if you are old enough to die for your nation, you should have a say in how to defend your nation, but you don't. You listen to what your Generals tell you. If they say you run towards the mini-gun, you do that. Let's not forget Army Generals are NOT elected, they are selected by experience. Same thing as what I am saying, and what Plato have said, that is, major decisions should be left to those who have experience, not someone with all the idealism.

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@Real Music,

Quote:

By the way, the both of them have given Billions, not millions, I said Billions with a B to charity. They do this because they are caring and compassionate. Everyone has their own moral or religious beliefs. I'll just say helping the poor is caring and it is good. Helping the poor is also the Christian thing to do.

Philanthropy is good, but blind idealism is bad. I am not talking about this kind of warranted philanthropy, but rather the idealism that are being fed to the young these days. Fighting for $15 minimum wage? The next thing is $20 then even more. What's the logic in that? Don't they know that when minimum wage rise, so does everything else? A big mac that cost $3 will cost a lot more than $3 if the minimum wage is $15. Lower income people ultimately aren't any better off. The REAL way to improve the standard of living of those people is to encourage them to get a degree, go to school and earn it instead of screwing around complaining about how the system is unfair to them.

Perhaps my wording is wrong. I should not say "helping" the poor is bad, but "spoiling" the poor is BAD, BAD, BAD. That's precisely what the country is pushing for -- spoiling the poor like they are so unfortunate that they deserve every hard earned dollar of everyone else.

It's the choices that you make when you are young that result in what you become. If you are inspired to work in a supermarket, then that is your choice. You probably is a wanna be gangster who got straight D's in high school and then complain about the system being unfair to you. Well, who's fault is that? The system gives you a 2nd chance to go to community college and redeem yourself, but then you decided to participate in some sort of "get rich quick" scheme instead of working hard, and lost all your savings. Again, is that the system's fault?

There's a limit to how much we can help someone. If this someone just want to be a leech of the society, then what can we do? Keep spoiling them? True equality will never be a reality and communism has proven this. You wanna live in Stalin's Russia, go ahead, move to North Korea.

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@Angelgz2,

Quote:

Fighting for $15 minimum wage? The next thing is $20 then even more. What's the logic in that? Don't they know that when minimum wage rise, so does everything else? A big mac that cost $3 will cost a lot more than $3 if the minimum wage is $15. Lower income people ultimately aren't any better off.

I don't think anyone disagrees that there is a point where the minimum wage could be too high. The other side of that argument is I think most people agree that there is a point where the minimum wage could be too low. The real argument is not whether or not we should be fighting for a higher minimum wage. The argument should be both what is too low of a minimum wage and what is too high of a minimum wage. Depending on the size of the increase would determine whether or not the net benefits would out weigh the net negatives. That is a healthy debate for both sides to have.

Why raise the minimum wage?

1 Reply

@Angelgz2,

Quote:

That's the number one thing I always hear. Let's not forget. Military isn't a democracy -- it's a total dictatorship by ranks. So when you are 18, you get drafted and defend your country, but you make no decisions as to battle strategies. So by your argument, if you are old enough to die for your nation, you should have a say in how to defend your nation, but you don't. You listen to what your Generals tell you. If they say you run towards the mini-gun, you do that. Let's not forget Army Generals are NOT elected, they are selected by experience. Same thing as what I am saying, and what Plato have said, that is, major decisions should be left to those who have experience, not someone with all the idealism

I have all sorts of disagreements with your arguments regarding the voting age. First of all, after the end of the Viet Nam war the United States has had an all volunteer military. Second point is what does the military not being a democracy have to do with whether or not someone having the right to vote. Third point is even if they were drafted and ordered to join the military, why would that matter? As far as the military being a dictatorship by rank, why would that matter? If you are not making battle strategy decisions, why would that matter? Of course you have to follow the orders of your superior officers and generals, but why would that matter?

The same argument still applies. If you are old enough to defend, fight, and die for your country, you damn sure earned the right to vote. You will find virtually no one that will argue against that point. The 26th amendment of the U.S. Constitution grants voting rights to citizens over the age of 18.

I strongly believe that the only reason you are suggesting that the voting age be raised to 25 is because you believe that a larger percentage of younger people will not vote the way you think they should vote. Because of that reason, you don't think they are mature or smart enough to be voting for our elected officials. I suspect you wouldn't be making that claim if their ideology and politics were right in line with your own. That is what makes your argument disingenuous.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

Quote:

If you are not making battle strategy decisions, why would that matter? Of course you have to follow the orders of your superior officers and generals, but why would that matter?

Of course it matters. In the end, my superior officers are making a pretty big decision that could impact the lives of many soldiers. If I am not making a battle strategy or electing these superior officers, and am being sent to my death, how is that different from not having the right to choose the leader of our nation? That's the whole premise you have isn't it? That if you can die for your country, you should be able to vote for your leaders? Then why only restricting to the people that's running the office and not military leaders as well? You did not answer the question but rather just dodging it.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Why am I not surprised that this call for voter suppression is coming from an apparent uberconservative?

When you're 18, you can enlist in the military and possibly die for your country. In times of war, you can be drafted at 18, quite possibly against your will, and die for your country. If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to have a say in the running of it.It's really very simple.

But not drink or purchase alcohol. Old enough to die, but only sober.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

In all argument for raising minimum wage, almost all mentions that when minimum wage increase, workers earn more money and spend it and therefore, stimulate business. What they ALL left out is PRICE INCREASE. If I hire some dude to make burgers for $7.25 and hour and now I have to pay $15, am I still going to charge the same price for that burger? Some say I'll sell more burger but that's bullshit. People don't just suddenly have a bigger appetite and want to eat 2 burgers instead of one by the flip of a switch.

And why is that you see so many "self check out" lines in the supermarkets nowadays? Where do you think the cashier's jobs have gone? Raising minim wage spurs innovation, that much I give you. Innovations making the business more efficient and the store that used to need 10 people now only need 3. Good luck to the other 7 people.

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

But not drink or purchase alcohol. Old enough to die, but only sober.

And let's not forget you can't rent a car until you are 25. Old enough to die for your country, but not old enough to rent a set of damn wheels.

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@Angelgz2,

This thread is a little bit duplicitous. There is no serious attempt to keep 20 year olds from voting.

The real goal of voter suppression is to keep Black people from voting. That is why the focus is on limiting the time when you can vote, limiting polling locations in certain areas and inventing hoops for that is difficult for minorities to jump through.

White Christian conservatives don't want Black people to vote.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The real goal of voter suppression is to keep Black people from voting. That is why the focus is on limiting the time when you can vote, limiting polling locations in certain areas and inventing hoops for that is difficult for minorities to jump through.

Well obviously they aren't succeeding are they? I am a minority and I had ordered a absentee ballot and received it in the mail a few days ago. I mailed it out last week and all seemed to be fine.

A lot of educated black people I know are actually very conservative and they see the problems the same way I see them. They don't go around and blame everything as racism. It's rather the media that LOVES to report only those claims made by lunatics that the world is still against them.

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@maxdancona,

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/arizona-election-2016-voting-rights/

Read this. Are they seriously telling me that they have ALL the time to hold a f***ing sign on the road for days and days and don't have time to drop off their ballots? Did anyone force them to live in areas where there isn't mail collection? So we must make exceptions to certain laws because there isn't mail collection? They need a life.

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@Angelgz2,

You say "a lot of educated Black people ... see the problems the way I see them". About 1% of African-Americans voters support Donald Trump. Does this count as "a lot"?

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@Angelgz2,

There are a lot of educated White people (myself included) who understand that Republican politicians are intentionally making it harder for people to vote in minority communities with the goal of winning elections.

There are minorities who support the Republican party for several reasons. There are small government conservatives, and there are religious conservatives. Both of these groups are catered to by the Republican party. Incidentally the Trump movement is throwing both of these groups under the bus... although apparently some of the members of these groups enjoy being thrown under the bus (I don't understand their continued enthusiasm).

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of the base of the Republican party is motivated by the desire to keep what they see as White American culture as the as the dominant culture in the US.

If you are Black, or Muslim, or Hispanic and don't see this, then you are being misled.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of the base of the Republican party is motivated by the desire to keep what they see as White American culture as the as the dominant culture in the US.

How much is a lot in your eyes Max?

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@McGentrix,

Good question McGentrix (that made me chuckle... turn about is fair play).

In my opinion, the Trump campaign is about White Supremacy. It is anti-Muslim, anti-Immigrant (the arguments that it isn't are silly), pro-Christian, anti-Spanish, anti-Affirmative Action.

I would say that the most enthusiastic Trump supporters are motivated by the desire to see White American culture dominant. Some Trump support is (understandable) opposition to Hillary Clinton or to liberal policies in general.

If you make me put a number on it, I would say that at least 35% of Republicans are primary motivated what they refer to "American" cultural values. But that is just my opinion based on what Trump supporters are saying to reporters.

1 Reply

This whole BIG thing about voter suppression.

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