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Kerry and the Progressive Dilemma

 
 
lodp
 
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2004 07:26 pm
This thing is taken from Tikkun Magazine - A Bimonthly Jewish Critique of Politics, Culture & Society, Tikkun.org
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 929 • Replies: 13
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Chuckster
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2004 07:37 pm
TOS violation par excellance.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2004 08:14 pm
Re: Kerry and the Progressive Dilemma
lodp wrote:


Wouldn't that be nice? A runoff if there were no clear majority winner? Then voters could support any candidate they like in the first round with little fear that doing so will assist in electing their least favorite candidate. Another idea that would be nice would be proportional representation like Germany has... I think this would give us a stable democracy rather than a stable government...
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lodp
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2004 08:31 pm
The problem with proportional representation seems to be that elections in such a system are less likely to yield fundamental changes of policy (big parties arrange in coalitions).

There's a nice idea I once came across, dunno how that could be implemented in the US, as it's designed for a parliamentary democracies - the winner of the relative majority of votes gets absolute majority of seats and runs the government, the rest of the mandates are given proportionally to the remaining parties.
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John Kerry
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 07:35 am
John Kerry and the Democrats hate Jews. Jews are all rich and take advantage of the poor working man.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 08:09 am
Well, thanks for sharing that tidbit of info John, I shall put it down in my notebook for future reference on the religon in politics catagory.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 08:45 am
Let's get him elected first, and then push him to the left once he's inaugurated.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 09:46 am
BBB
bookmark
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 09:49 am
PDiddie wrote:
Let's get him elected first, and then push him to the left once he's inaugurated.


Good plan, PDiddie.
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lodp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 10:58 am
PDiddie wrote:
Let's get him elected first, and then push him to the left once he's inaugurated.


What makes you believe that would work? And by what means do you think that could be achieved?

I think there's got to be a change in the voting system. Voters should not have to vote for what candidate they think can make the race but for the candidate whose agenda they believe to be best for America.

Look at what happened in the primaries. The media praised NH voters for their wise decision to not elect the candidate whose agenda they favored but but the one who could beat Bush. That's not how it's supposed to be.
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lodp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 07:33 am
Just found something that blew my mind, never thought Noam Chomsky would actually take a stand on this. Might make me rethink my position. Taken from theunitycampaign.org
---
CHOMSKY ON BUSH VS. KERRY

This is the full excerpt on election '04 from an interview of MIT professor Noam Chomsky conducted on June 11 by David Barsamian (Alternative Radio).

BARSAMIAN: Every four years Americans, those who vote, are faced with what is often called the lesser of two evils as their presidential options. Dave Dellinger, who passed away in May, used to call it "the evil of two lessers." You say that there is "a fraction" of difference between George Bush and John Kerry. And this raised some eyebrows. I heard, "It sounds like Chomsky is coming out for Kerry." Could you expand on your position.

CHOMSKY: There are differences. They have different constituencies. There are different groups of people around them. On international affairs I wouldn't expect any major policy changes. It would probably be more like back to the Clinton years, when you have sort of the same policies, but more modulated, not so brazen and aggressive, less violent. And I would expect a kind of return to that.

On domestic issues there could be a fairly significant difference-it's not huge-but different in its outcomes. The group around Bush are real fanatics. They're quite open. They're not hiding it; you can't accuse them of that. They want to destroy the whole array of progressive achievements of the past century. They've already more or less gotten rid of progressive income tax. They're trying to destroy the limited medical care system. The new pharmaceutical bill is a step towards that. They're going after Social Security. They probably will go after schools. They do not want a small government, any more than Reagan did. They want a huge government, and massively intrusive. They hate free markets. But they want it to work for the rich. The Kerry people will do something not fantastically different, but less so. They have a different constituency to appeal to, and they are much more likely to protect some limited form of benefits for the general population.

There are other differences. The popular constituency of the Bush people, a large part of it, is the extremist fundamentalist religious sector in the country, which is huge. There is nothing like it in any other industrial country. And they have to keep throwing them red meat to keep them in line. While they're shafting them in their economic and social policies, you've got to make them think you're doing something for them. And throwing red meat to that constituency is very dangerous for the world, because it means violence and aggression, but also for the country, because it means harming civil liberties in a serious way. The Kerry people don't have that constituency. They would like to have it, but they're never going to appeal to it much. They have to appeal somehow to working people, women, minorities, and others, and that makes a difference.

These may not look like huge differences, but they translate into quite big effects for the lives of people. Anyone who says "I don't care if Bush gets elected" is basically telling poor and working people in the country, "I don't care if your lives are destroyed. I don't care whether you are going to have a little money to help your disabled mother. I just don't care, because from my elevated point of view I don't see much difference between them." That's a way of saying, "Pay no attention to me, because I don't care about you." Apart from its being wrong, it's a recipe for disaster if you're hoping to ever develop a popular movement and a political alternative.
---

Your thoughts?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 09:14 am
The neocon's war on Roosevelt's legislation
The Neocon's war on Roosevelt's legislation:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34301&sid=797cbab4ed87657cdda80c98500fc566
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 09:17 am
If Neocons win, it's "Welcome to Hooverville" Amer
If the Neocons win this battle, it's "Welcome to Hooverville" America.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:NLhsZmdxEV8J:encarta.msn.com/media_461558296_761584403_-1_1/Hoovervilles.html+Hooverville&hl=en&start=7&ie=UTF-8

Hoovervilles in Seattle:
http://www.historylink.org/galleries/nowthen/hoover.htm

Hooverville's in New York City's Central Park:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hooverville

How Hoover and the Republican Party set the stage for Hoovervilles:
http://www.washington.edu/uwired/outreach/cspn/hstaa432/lesson_19/hstaa432_19.html#hooverville

Bush took lessons from Hoover - what Hoover did to the WWI veterans:
http://www.beachonline.com/hoover.htm
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 09:42 am
Oh God, this makes me want to just move to Scotland... too bad it is so damned bleak.
0 Replies
 
 

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