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Bush Is a 'Radical Ideologue'

 
 
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2004 04:38 pm
"Hanoi Jane" Fonda attacked George Bush this week as a "radical ideologue," while calling her old anti-war protest partner John Kerry a voice of "moderation."

In New York City this week as part of her "Vaginas Vote" campaign to register women to vote, she and other feminist stars headlined a rally at Harlem's Apollo Theater Monday night.

According to London's Guardian newspaper, when a reporter asked Fonda about the photo of her and Kerry together at a 1970 Vietnam War protest, she reacted by drawing a parallel between that war and the war in Iraq.
Saying Bush's decision to go to war was based on "a lie," Fonda complained, "I agree with the military experts who say it's a quagmire."

The America-bashing actress then urged voters to back Kerry over Bush, saying: "I don't think there's ever been such a clear choice between radicalism and moderation. I mean, we are dealing with a radical ideologue here."

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,6000,1307188,00.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 655 • Replies: 15
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 06:38 am
If I did not know better I would think you were rooting for Kerry by your post.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 03:18 pm
I agree with Fonda except for her choice of the word "radical." The correct term for a right-wing zealot is reactionary.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2004 11:19 pm
coluber2001 wrote:
I agree with Fonda except for her choice of the word "radical." The correct term for a right-wing zealot is reactionary.

Anyone who wants to change the status quo greatly based on a philosophy is a radical idealogue. To state but one example, the president has moved us from a military policy of Mutual Assured Destruction to an avowed policy of pre-emption. He has changed many other things. Therefore, when Jane Fonda calls him a radical idealogue, I more or less agree, although that is probably the only think I agree with her about. It's Kerry's who's the reactionary, saying, "What are you doing? We've never done it that way before."
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:10 am
Well, I was talking about the political spectrum: Communist, radical, liberal<moderate>conservative, reactionary, and fascist.

Many people use the term radical to denote any extremist, right or left. Reactionary is "extreme conservatism in politics." Bush is more of a 19th century president than even a 20th century president, mush less a 21st century one. There's nothing new about Bush's policies. Pick up a history book, it's full of the same failed policies.

To call Kerry a reactionary is laughable, you've got your spectrum mixed up. Kerry is moderate to liberal. Nixon was more liberal than Kerry. Relative to Nixon in Nixon's time, Bush would be definitely reactionary, but in the present-day political mood shift to the right Bush would be conservative to reactionary.

At any rate, in my opinion, Bush is at best imcompetent and at worst a disaster for the country. But it will take future historians to see that clearly.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 08:22 am
coluber2001 wrote:
Well, I was talking about the political spectrum: Communist, radical, liberal<moderate>conservative, reactionary, and fascist.

Many people use the term radical to denote any extremist, right or left. Reactionary is "extreme conservatism in politics." Bush is more of a 19th century president than even a 20th century president, mush less a 21st century one. There's nothing new about Bush's policies. Pick up a history book, it's full of the same failed policies.

To call Kerry a reactionary is laughable, you've got your spectrum mixed up. Kerry is moderate to liberal. Nixon was more liberal than Kerry. Relative to Nixon in Nixon's time, Bush would be definitely reactionary, but in the present-day political mood shift to the right Bush would be conservative to reactionary.

At any rate, in my opinion, Bush is at best imcompetent and at worst a disaster for the country. But it will take future historians to see that clearly.


Bush has introduced numerous new policies, some involving entirely new philosophies, such as the one I mentioned - a transition from the half century old Mututal Assured Destruction to pre-emption. Most of Kerry's reactions have been to assert that we should maintain our prior philosophical guidelines. A person who introduces significant policy changes, often based on philosphy changes, may fairly be called a radical. A person, like Kerry, who objects, and advocates policies in line with old philosophies may fairly be called a reactionary. Anyone in reactive mode is a reactionary. It is simplistic to insist that reactionaries are on the right and radicals on the left regardless of any of the facts.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 08:48 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
It's Kerry's who's the reactionary, saying, "What are you doing? We've never done it that way before."


Actually, I think he's saying 'we've done it that way before -- and it turned out to be a huge mistake'.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 08:52 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
It's Kerry's who's the reactionary, saying, "What are you doing? We've never done it that way before."


Actually, I think he's saying 'we've done it that way before -- and it turned out to be a huge mistake'.

When did we have an avowed policy of pre-emption of potential future foes?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:03 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
It's Kerry's who's the reactionary, saying, "What are you doing? We've never done it that way before."


Actually, I think he's saying 'we've done it that way before -- and it turned out to be a huge mistake'.

When did we have an avowed policy of pre-emption of potential future foes?

Grenada comes to mind. But we kicked some butt there, didn't we! we should do that again. Find some tiny nation without any resources and just beat the crap out of them, teach them a lesson they will never forget.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:20 am
Dare I say the V word?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:23 am
dyslexia wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
It's Kerry's who's the reactionary, saying, "What are you doing? We've never done it that way before."


Actually, I think he's saying 'we've done it that way before -- and it turned out to be a huge mistake'.

When did we have an avowed policy of pre-emption of potential future foes?

Grenada comes to mind. But we kicked some butt there, didn't we! we should do that again. Find some tiny nation without any resources and just beat the crap out of them, teach them a lesson they will never forget.

How fascinating! I never realized that we had a written national policy of pre-empting emerging threats in the early 80s.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:30 am
http://www.poncacitynews.com/NewsArchives/1098folder/lo102598.html

Quote:
Castro had become bold in the post Vietnam War period. He had sent Cuban advisors to the African country of Angola and became even bolder with communist gains in Central America. After Nicaragua fell in 1979, the tiny island of Grenada, led by Maurice Bishop, began to lean toward communism. Castro sent in a small army of workers to construct an air strip at Point Salinas capable of handling the largest of military aircraft. Castro then began to stockpile huge amounts of arms and ammunition. Grenada had become a supply base for communist expansion in the Western Hemisphere.

After Bishop made moves to restore relations with the U.S., the pro-Soviet faction of his party, led by Bernard Coard, placed him under arrest on Oct. 13, 1983. Bishop supporters broke in and freed him. General Hudson Austin consequently had his Grenadan troops fire on the crowd, recapture Bishop then execute him on the spot. Austin then established himself as the head of a military junta.

President Reagan watched in horror. His hidden agenda was to reverse communist gains in this hemisphere. The Medical School for American college students on the island gave him the excuse to act. On Oct. 21 the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States appealed for the United States to intervene. Reagan had the international support.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:30 am
Do we have a written national policy of pre-emption now? I was under the impression that it was all based on precedent.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:37 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Do we have a written national policy of pre-emption now? I was under the impression that it was all based on precedent.

Yes: http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf
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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:06 pm
Bush has precedents: Napoleon and Hitler.

Both found that the Russian winter was a problem.
Don't forget, Bush set out wantend to warm up the cold war.

Bush will find his chill factor.

Phlebitis anyone?
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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:07 pm
Bush started out wanting to rekindle the cold war.

Now the Soviets are in our sympathy.
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