Shooters in Germany

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

However, considering that your government has planted a major stake in ground concerning Muslim immigration, and that there is some suggestion, if not evidence that this led to downplaying, dismissal and misinformation about the horrific New Year's Eve sexual assualt plague by North African Muslim immigrants, if I were a German citizen I might be hesitant to accept the notion, as accurate as it actually may be, that this fellow was simply insane.

No one said that he was "simply insane" - sorry, if I wrote something that could have understood as such.

As far as it known, he had got psychiatric treatment.

His parents lived in Munich since the early 1990's.
What happened in Cologne, was mainly done by persons from the Maghreb. Most of those persons weren't immigrants but mainly asylum seekers and refugees.

No one related what happened in Cologne to the Munich shootings - the recent attack in Würzburg was a main reason for the panics.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

This is what happens when political leaders attempt to spin facts towards a conclusion they prefer.

It will continue to be a sad time for Germans. I hope they can rely upon their government to tell them the truth.

The investigations are done by the police (now by the Bavarian State Criminal Police Office).

Politicians waited until some results were got - they didn't guess and give conclusions before.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It will continue to be a sad time for Germans. I hope they can rely upon their government to tell them the truth.

During my job as a probation officer (mainly with youngsters and young adult) and with the prevention department of our state's State Criminal Police Office but especially when working with groups of younger psychiatric ill persons ... you really have to work hard to foresee and avoid such.
And my experiences are not of today but from years ago.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

But there has been comments about him being of Iranian heritage which is why I distinguished between Iranians and Muslims.

Yes. What makes it really different if he had been of Frankonian heritage or Swabian? Did someone really refer to the Würtemberg heritage of that person who did the Winnenden school shooting?

Since most (if not all) victims are of non-German heritage - I really should wonder why you didn't say he was an extreme right-winger and xenophobic.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I completely agree Walter.

I don't necessarily think the German government could have done anything to anticipate or prevent this. Time will tell if this individual was or should have been on their radar.

However, if he was motivated by Islamist ideas (and I am not assuming he was) then this is something the German people should know. What they do with that information is up to them not German politicians.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

However, if he was motivated by Islamist ideas (and I am not assuming he was) then this is something the German people should know. What they do with that information is up to them not German politicians.

That has been excluded by the police as well as any reference to any anti- or pro-refugee action.

But I agree that speculation about this will go on, whatever the facts and the results of the investigation will be.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I think you making an argument where none is called for. He is of Iranian heritage per your government. This doesn't mean he was a Muslim, but it's not a ridiculous leap to think he was, all things considered.

However, it doesn't matter what his heritage or religion was if he was simply insane. My point was that Iranians and Muslims can be simply insane and their insane acts do not necessarily have anything to do with their heritage or religion.

You really need to look more for where we agree than how you can refute everything I post.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

He is of Iranian heritage per your government.

We don't have 'heritage' mentioned in any papers etc.
It has been mentionened by the police (and may be by some Bavarian or Federal government ministers as well, I'm not sure) because he had dual-nationality.

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@Walter Hinteler,

You are just too pedantic for me Walter, but I wish you and your people well.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Meanwhile, the federal government (members of all coalition parties) is thinking loud about tigheneing our gun laws (which won't hinder someone to get a Glock illegally as done here).
And the Bavarian government wants the army employed during domestic amok and terrorist attacks (which will take ages since the constitution has to be changed).
I'm still thinking what went wrong with that youngster, and how to prevend such situations in future. (If it was just "not taking the pills" - than you can't avoid it.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

I think it is very difficult to reach a loner like this young man and others like him.
They seem to have two personalities - the one being the shy and polite guy and inside the chaotic person who seeks revenge and like IS, Neonazis and other groups like that.
Even the best trained professional sometimes miss what they are like, simply because they show the nice side. Now and then they put their ideas in internet, but people do not take it seriously.

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@saab,

According to media reports the Munich shooter tried to copy the shootings of Tim K. in Winnenden and by Anders Breivik in Norway ori.
He even drove to Winnenden to have a look around and took photos.

The Glock was bought via the darknet from Slovenia.
Among the dead were only two native Germans, all the others had a migration background (two Germans with Turkish background, one each with Hungarian, Greece, Kosovo and Turkish nationality, one without nationality). All lived in Munich or Munich district.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Some information I forgot to mention above:
according to the president of the Bavarian State Office of Criminal Investigation, David S. had planned the shooting since last year's summer - he wrote a manifest about the planned shooting, orientated along the shootings in Winnenden and Norway.
The Glock was a 'reactivated' theatre weapon.

The number of persons who wre injured became larger (35 now), mainly because those hurt on other places in Munich due to fake alarms are included.

The prosecution is investigating the false alarms and fake photos.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Spiegel-tv will broadcast a film tonight (the conten of it is pushlished at spiegel-online here).

David S. had been a member of a chat group about playing Counter-Strike. He bacame a member, because someone from his school, who was already a member, thought, David had no friends ... .
However, he wasn't liked at all in that group, too, due to his extreme nationalistic and xenophobic speech. His chat-names were "Amok" and "Hate".
David S. left the group in winter - all had complaint that he shot his friends in the games, even used programs killing his co-players already at the beginning of the plays.

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@Walter Hinteler,

David S.'s father went to a police station to say that his son might be shooter - shortly after the video was published in the internet.

S. had been in a youth psychiatric institution for two months (in 2015), afterwards still in ambulant treatment (until a few weeks ago) for "social phobias and anxiety states".

According to the prosecutor (and investigators), David S. hadn't targeted his victims - that they'd had mainly immigrant background was random. (The McDonald's next to the shopping centre is a favourite place among migrant children.)

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A friend of David S. told Spiegel that he developed "tremendous hatred for most foreigners". He had forbidden his friends to use his nickname 'Ali' when addressing him.

An alleged accomplice had said in his police interrogation that David S. had adored Anders Behring Breivik.
According to a report in the 'Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung', he was "honoured" to have shared the same date as Hitler as birthday. And he was proud to be a "true Arian".
He had hated Turks and Arabs, according to that report, harbored a "superiority feeling" towards them.
He had posted in chat rooms "Turkey = ISIS", his co-players (Counter-Strike) said, and was a big sympathiser of opinions by the extreme right-wing AfD party.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Thanks for keeping up with this, walter. These stories get forgotten by the news I see on line.

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@edgarblythe,

Well, and we get now the trouble with "copy cats" - yesterday, a big shopping mall had to be evacuated due to a bomb thread (the daughter of a friend had been in there, later to wait hours to get her car back) - and some more, even more serious threads: a 15-year old has been arrested, who had "collected materials for an attack (ammunition, chemicals etc)

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@Walter Hinteler,

This 15-years old boy had had chat-contact with the one in Munich (but didn't know about the amok plans).
He's now in a youth-psychiatric hospital.

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@Walter Hinteler,

The suspected weapon dealer of the Glock, used in Munich, has been arrested today.
It's a 31-years old German, who had dealt weapons via the dark-net. He is said to have admitted that he had sold the pistol in May and the ammunition four days before the Munich shooting.

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Shooters in Germany

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