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What's wrong with you people?

 
 
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 02:27 pm
What's wrong with you people?
-Jonah Goldberg

Liberal academics and journalists have been asking this question in various forms a lot lately. And it seems that, as John Kerry's campaign continues to flounder, they're asking it more and more bluntly.

In the August 30 issue of the New Yorker, Pulitzer Prize winner Louis Menand tries to figure out why on earth voters vote the way they do, particularly why they don't vote liberal. The depressing conclusion, for Menand, is that huge numbers of Americans have no good reason to vote at all. He quotes one recent study that asserts " '2.8 million people voted against Al Gore in 2000 because their states were too dry or too wet' as a consequence of that year's weather patterns."

The most comprehensive presentation of this thesis comes from Thomas Frank, a left-wing journalist and author of the bestseller "What's the Matter with Kansas." Frank argues that conservatives have been duping lower- and middle-class voters into voting Republican, when any moron can see that these people should vote their class interests - that is, vote Democrat. "The preeminent issue of our day," Frank writes, is "people getting their interests wrong."

He cites, for example, the "Piss Christ" controversy which, well, I'll let him describe it: "Because some artist decides to shock the hicks by dunking Jesus in urine, the entire planet must remake itself along the lines preferred by the Republican Party, U.S.A."

If the word "hick" didn't clue you in, Frank is very condescending to those who vote on that broad array of issues we generally put under the rubric "values."

We'll come back to that point in a moment. Another major voice in the voters-are-stupid chorus is Princeton economist Larry Bartels (he's the one who came up with that blame-it-on-the-weather explanation of Gore's loss). In numerous studies Bartels has sought to show that voters are inherently irrational in their electoral choices. Voters often profess to believe one thing, he argues, while at the same time they do quite another. Their votes often contradict their beliefs and interests, in other words - at least as political scientists define these things.

In the June issue of the American Prospect, Bartels summarizes his study "Homer Gets a Tax Cut." Here's the gist: Americans believe, by huge majorities, that income inequality is a problem that is getting worse. Yet by equally large majorities they support George Bush's effort to repeal the estate tax, even though it only affects estates worth more than $1 million. The fools!

Bartels says these voters are operating on "unenlightened self-interest." Hence the reference to "The Simpsons." Homer thinks his taxes are too high, so he supports a tax cut for super-rich Mr. Burns. As Simpsons-o-phile, I salute the reference. And I think Bartels' data is often very interesting, especially since I'm the sort of curmudgeon who thinks voting should be more difficult and there should be less of it. (That's a column for another day.) But, all in all, this whole thing strikes me a huge steaming pile of . well, let's just call it nonsense.

Let me try to peel the onion a bit. First of all, the assumption behind all of this is that liberal economic policies are, in fact, in the average Joe's economic self-interest. This needs to be proven, not asserted. In an age when average Joes are in the stock market and own homes at unprecedented rates, it is not obvious to me that Republican policies are contrary to their bottom lines. Moreover, many of these people hope to be rich one day. Or they hope their children will be.

Which gets us to the next point. People vote - or at least should vote - based upon the kind of country they want their kids to live in. And that means they vote on more issues than narrow economic interest, however defined. Most people - liberals and conservatives - don't see the government as the source of a welfare check and therefore don't vote for the party that promises to put the most zeros on that check. Most see government more as a protector than a nanny. And some people see the government as a reflection of, and influence on, the society in general. And so asking them to subsidize soaking Jesus in urine offends them not because they're "hicks" but because they don't think that's the sort of society they want to raise kids in.

Besides, what an enormous crock it is to say that Democrats or liberals only believe in voting their economic interests. A great many environmental issues hurt working-class voters. For example, the Arctic Wildlife Refuge would be open for drilling if working-class interests were the sine qua non of liberalism. Indeed, why do most liberals oppose the death penalty? Or favor gay marriage? They would cite justice more than self-interest. Unless, that is, I missed the news that most liberals are murderous homosexuals eager to tie the knot before they get the electric chair.

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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 02:34 pm
Speak for yourself, please.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 02:34 pm
This is a lot like Michael Moore's often-stated view that President Bush was elected by people who didn't vote. The statistics on the continuing decrease in the percentage of voters in many countries are depressing. Don't people care about their country enough to vote?

I got an email a little while ago from bipolarBear - it ended with an encouragement to vote - not an encouragement to vote one way or another - simply an encouragement to vote.

The thought that people continue to allow others to make their decisions by not voting is frightening.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: What's wrong with you people?
Jonah Goldberg wrote:
And I think Bartels' data is often very interesting, especially since I'm the sort of curmudgeon who thinks voting should be more difficult and there should be less of it.

I agree.

Jonah Goldberg wrote:
People vote - or at least should vote - based upon the kind of country they want their kids to live in.

I don't have any kids. Should I vote based upon the kind of country I want somebody else's kids to live in? I say screw that! Let them make a mess of the country when they get older -- it's my country now!


Jonah Goldberg wrote:
Indeed, why do most liberals oppose the death penalty? Or favor gay marriage? They would cite justice more than self-interest. Unless, that is, I missed the news that most liberals are murderous homosexuals eager to tie the knot before they get the electric chair.

Well, I can't speak for most liberals...
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 06:55 am
pad:

Mc can't.

He can only reapeat what Bush's sheepdog's tell him.

I myself think that the problem is that Bush has managed to create a "climate of fear" that has many people afraid to speak or act against him.

That and a loyal flock of "sheep" that a well-trained(and well-funded) pack of media "sheepdogs" keep in line.

COMING SOON--New Patriot--Information to battle the new "King George"
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:06 am
Let me ask you something NeoGuin...when you post your anti-Bush rhetoric, do you do it because your a slave to the liberal media and believe only what Al Franken tells you to believe or is it because you feel that way?

I post what I post because I believe in it. I like President Bush and I like the direction he has taken this country. I am not happy with everything he has done and there are plenty of things I would change if I could. I do NOT, however, merely post what I do because I am some sort of "sheep" and I take offense to your accusation.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:11 am
Actually, that article has some valid points.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:25 am
Quote:
"What's wrong with your people?"



-- nothin', what's wrong with you?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:29 am
Quote:
Indeed, why do most liberals oppose the death penalty?


I've always said, the pope is a commie in disguise - like our conservatives!
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 09:30 am
McG:

As do I.

I believe that Bush is leading this country that in 40 or so years may end in a real revolution.

So I fight back!

You just seem to be following what Bush and his CEO's hand out to you.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:23 am
And you seem to be following what Moore and his gut feed you.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:35 am
Some interesting quotes from potential US voters:

Top Ten Questions and Statements Said to Me While Living Abroad

"Have you seen the South Park movie… Buddy? (Also: "I love that Strange Brew movie… Hoser!")

"So…, it's like cold there, right?"

"Who is your president?"

"You're from Canada? Do you know (so-and-so) from (random Canadian city)?"

"Yeah, I saw something on TV about that Quebec thing a while back."

"Aren't you guys British?"

"Do you like Bryan Adams?"

"Hey! I saw (random Canadian actor/singer) on TV yesterday! He's Canadian - I was going to call you."

"Can you say aboot for me? Eh?"

"So when are you guys going to join the US?"
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:47 am
"You put what on your french fries?"
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:49 am
McGentrix wrote:
"You put what on your french fries?"


Ketchup, or if you are in Quebec, gravy and cheese curds. Sadly, we do not have Catsup in these parts.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:54 am
Ahhh! Abuzz memories of the Ketchup / Catsup query. Fond memories.


I like ketchup.

What kind of gravy? Brown?
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:00 pm
Regular poutine is usually topped with plain brown gravy. 'Poutine Italienne' is topped with tomato sauce, not ketchup. Both are topped with cheese curds. Now, if you order it at Jamie Kennedy's Wine Bar here in Toronto, you get it with his home-made fries, lamb jus, and goat cheese. Man it's good.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:03 pm
to those of you not familiar with New Mexico, here's a pic of Wavy Gravy;
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2003-03-14/music_feature16-1.jpg
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:12 pm
http://www.wavygravy.net/

Dad...?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:13 pm
I got to hang out with wavy Gravy for awile in 99. He is an interesting guy with great stories and a flair for telling them.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:17 pm
I never had the chance to meet him, but I am familiar with the legend.
0 Replies
 
 

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