How much of Hitler's rise was circumstantial? I think we have enough oridinary people in America who harbor thoughts not so far off from his but are unable to act on it. In fact, they are closeted despots. I won't mention any names.
Lightwizard wrote:How much of Hitler's rise was circumstantial? I think we have enough oridinary people in America who habor thoughts not so far off from his but are unable to act on it. In fact, they are closeted despots. I won't mention any names.
Don't wanna use any four letter words, huh!
Gosh, no. Our explitive application on the site might **** it. Oh, but wait -- that isn't on the list!
Nevermind, 'cause if if was I would simply write "B**h." To be fair, I'm sure he has lots of company. Condaleeza was on Today again spreading the longterm relationship of Sadaam with al-Queda rumor. Why, Sadaam probably had a homosexual relationship with bin Laden. Who knows?
A good deal of Hitler's rise was "circumstantial," in that his gutter politics could only have prospered initially in the environment of runaway inflation and crippling unemployment which then existed in Germany. That being acknowledged, however, it was his particular genius as a gutter politician which lead him to first associate with Ernst Rohm, then to coopt Rohm's social programs (soup kitchens, "make-work" public projects, charitably supported "unemployment" checks), and finally, to destroy Rohm and the Brown shirts. Given the condition of Germany in the early 1920's, Hitler remains a unique megalomaniac in that he was uniquely qualified to exploit the situation.
There's something to be said about empathetic queens.
I'm not so sure about Hitler's mental state of mind in the early 1920's and whether it qualified him to be classified as a meglomaniac. I think that may have come later. He was certainly homophobic as well as anti-Semitic.
LW
By all normal standards IMO Hitler was a madman. Sugar coating it will not change a thing. And trying to turn him into or portraying him as Joe Six-pack as it would seem some are doing as far as I am concerned won't fly. I wonder when the movie portraying Joe Stalin's or Attila the Huns softer side will be made. I wonder if in another 50 years they will be portraying Adolph as a kindly benevolent and misunderstood gentleman?
"Madman" is also a supposition based on his actions. I've not seen the movie so I don't know if they are portraying his "softer" side or his "human" side. Even a sociopath (which he likely qualified for) has an ordinary, human persona. It's what is lying underneath that is dangerous. His anti-Semitism and homophobic for a start. He had the support of the German people who were not all mad. Was it mass hypnosis? I don't think so. A lot of presumably sane people supported him through his early career including the industrialists. Krupp was also mad?
I happen to watch a special on one of the documentary channels recently including some of his speeches I had never seen. Know who he sounded like and displayed the almost identical demeanor? Zell Miller. I'm sure he also has a "softer," "tender" or "human" side.
A man named Richard Butler died recently. It made a local splash, because he was based in Hayden Lake, Idaho, and the NY Times ran a suprisingly long obit.
He was the founder of various Aryan Nations groups, and some of his followers were responsible for murders and other violent acts. It was interesting to read how he evolved; at some point he decided that the white race was superior, and he went on from there. Hated blacks, Jews, the usual list.
Anyhow, his group has shrunk now, though they certainly shook things up for a while. With Hitler, of course, it was different. Reading about Butler made me think of how things turn out, or don't, despite the intentions of the actors....
How many closeted, sociopathic would-be Hitlers does one suppose there are in this country?
I am inclined to believe Hitler started out as a very aggressive political figure who hated the Treaty of Versailles much like most of the German people and gradually descended into madness when running a war he was incapable of handling (sound familiar?), attempts were made on his life and many other events that could drive any ordinary person mad. However, in the legal system, a sociopath is not considered mad. They are prosecuted and sentenced as sane. The psychiatric community is now trying to change that by dropping the term sociopath and classifying these people as psychopaths. I'm not really that sure he ever really did "go mad." "The Bunker" showed him as a trapped animal who was increasingly irrational and in dire need of cognitive therepy (although I found it overblown in parts). Unless one was close to him his entire life, it's difficult to say he was always that way. He honestly believed and expounded his own rationality. I'm afraid this happens to all political leaders who gain that much power. No human being should realistically have that much power.
The industrialists and their political shills orchestrated his rise to power and the German people went along with it. Couldn't happen in this country, now could it?
Hitler was Austrian--although he certainly could have had gripes against the Versailles settlement on that account, he very conscientiously sought political power, first in Bavaria, and then in the rest of Germany. I've read Mein Kampf (more's the pity), and i consider the boy to have been unhinged from the day one. He may have deteriorated, but he certainly started with a distinct disadvantage vis-a-vis mental stability . . . in my never humble opinion.
Depends on what you mean by "unhinged." I could say that about three quarters of our politicians but I do appreciate your never humble opinion.
"One has the choice of honest arrogance or insincere humility. I chose honest arrogance." - Frank Lloyd Wright
au1929 -- Hollywood portrayed Stalin as a genial, benevolent leader of the Russian people in a 1941 (?) movie called "Mission to Moscow." (Lightwizard can probably add some more data on this; I don't even remember who starred in the film.) And it wouldn't surprise me if the same has already been done for Atilla. After all, John Wayne got to play Ghengiz Khan!
d'Aertagnian -- Richard Butler's demise was covered in some detail on NPR news programs as well. It's not really surprising that the Times gave it good coverage. Butler was probably better known among lunatic-fringe-watchers (yours truly included) than you realize.
"Mission to Moscow" was made at the urging of FDR to garner more support for the Soviet Union and the film was later used against Howard Koch, primarilly reponsible for his blacklisting. Walter Huston played the ambassador.
I just had to pop in a cliche while on the subject: The Butler did it.
Mmm...red herring...marinated with some red wine, sweet onions and spices...<drools>
Garnished with shoestring potatoes and fire roasted red, green and yellow bell peppers julianne. Okay, the orange, too.
Let's nix the green....they are just underripe peppers really. Red, yellow, orange, a little extra-virgin olive oil, sea salt, fresh cracked pepper, and some finely chopped fresh thyme, maybe a touch of garlic...I can see it...a base on the plate of the roasted peppers in three coulours, 'tri-colore' for those who speak pseudo-Italian, with some red herring (I shall name my recipe this, it's too good a term) mounded on top, and then crisp-fried pommes allumettes as the crowning glory.
