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Jill Stein, Libertarians, Trump and Brexit

 
 
snood
 
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 09:39 am
So, the Brexit vote will allow the UK to leave the EU, and this will cause economic and social upheaval the breadth of which is difficult to accurately estimate, but it looks huge.
One of the main immediate effects the Brexit has had here is to lend legitimacy to the Trump followers' nationalistic paranoia. They're using it to bolster arguments for building the wall, deporting 11 million and banning all Muslims. They're pointing to it as proof that Trump's suspicions about China and Mexico are right.
Meanwhile, you've still got a percentage of Bernie voters looking at ABH (anyone but Hillary). Jill Stein or the Libertarian candidates might seem like the only way to go, for them.

Could someone (besides a Hillary-hater for whom the above is all good news and whose advice would be suspect) please tell me why I should not be terribly alarmed by this particular co-occurrence of characters and events? I started this year laughing in derision at the prospect of a Trump presidency. Now its a nervous titter masking a rising dread.
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 11:50 am
@snood,
Bump
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 01:03 pm
@snood,
For the last time today - "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SEW".
What have you sewn, snood?
Sturgis
 
  5  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 02:06 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SEW".


is snood in the garment industry or were you meaning to say sOw?
Tes yeux noirs
 
  4  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 02:31 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
were you meaning to say sOw?

He made that howler in another thread today, and threw a hissy fit when it was humorously pointed out. That's the calibre of a lot of Brexit supporters, I am afraid. We knew they were politically and economically illiterate already, but it seems many of them actually are.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  6  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 03:01 pm
I generally have no earthly clue what that guy is on about. I think an ignore would go to good use on him.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 10:47 pm
@snood,
Quote Snood:
Quote:
Could someone (besides a Hillary-hater for whom the above is all good news and whose advice would be suspect) please tell me why I should not be terribly alarmed by this particular co-occurrence of characters and events?


How about the last several polls?
Reuters/Ipsos .............Clinton 44, Trump 34............................................Clinton +10
Reuters/Ipsos .............Clinton 43, Trump 34, Johnson 6, Stein 5............. Clinton +9
Economist/YouGov.....Clinton 43, Trump 39, Johnson 4......................... Clinton +4
CNN/ORC ...................Clinton 47, Trump 42 ...........................................Clinton +5
CNN/ORC ...................Clinton 42, Trump 38, Johnson 9, Stein 7 .............Clinton +4
CNBC ..........................Clinton 40, Trump 35............................................Clinton +5
Monmouth...................Clinton 49, Trump 41............................................Clinton +8
Monmouth...................Clinton 44, Trump 37, Johnson 9, Stein 4.............Clinton +7

Pretty gruesome for Trump. And the news just doesn't seem to get any better.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 07:02 am
@Blickers,
Yeah, thanks Blickers - that helps. Also, I just read an article that says Trump won't succeed on the momentum for nationalism brought on by Brexit, largely because there is a firewall for liberalism in the US that isn't in the UK - minority voters.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/06/embattled_whiteness_gave_us_brexit_it_won_t_give_us_president_trump.html
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 07:44 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
Could someone (besides a Hillary-hater for whom the above is all good news and whose advice would be suspect) please tell me why I should not be terribly alarmed by this particular co-occurrence of characters and events? I started this year laughing in derision at the prospect of a Trump presidency. Now its a nervous titter masking a rising dread.

Because it's inevitable.

Have you ever read Asimov's Foundation trilogy? (If not you should, amazing science fiction.)

While Seldon was a fictional character and psychohistory (as the word is used in his books) is a fictional discipline, the forces of history are churning nonetheless. We are witnessing the passing of American Liberalism into the dustbin of history, and not a moment too soon. That diabolical ideology has hurt far too many people.

Anyway, why worry about the inevitable? Accept reality and embrace the good parts of what is happening.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:19 am
@oralloy,
What's inevitable? Are you still saying that Trump is heralding in 20 years of Republican rule?
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:31 am
@oralloy,
On the contrary, it is the strict conservatism of the 1980s that is slowly fading out. When Carter left office, the country had high inflation and was having economic problems. These were not terrible problems, but after decades of increasing prosperity they seemed horrible. Incidentally, Carter's four years saw an increase of 8 Million Full Time jobs-2 Million new Full Time jobs a year-that nobody mentions.

Reagan came in with a can-do attitude and start fresh line of advocacy, and for awhile the country really did do better. With talk radio hype pushing Reagan up, even the younger generation became converted, and Reagan won a huge victory by a wide margin on his re-election. His vice-president, Bush 41, won election on the basis of his being part of the Reagan administration.

Well, those people who then were in their 20s and 30s who were inspired by Reagan and his ideas are now in their 50s and 60s. The younger voters are voting Democratic. Percentagewise, the younger voters are also less white, (or at least less non-Hispanic white), than the people in the 55+ age group. It is also a miracle that the GOP gets any votes at all from people in the 55+ age group who aren't millionaires, what with the Republicans' plans to get rid of Social Security and Medicare in their present form and replace them-it they replace them at all-with a welfare system. With increasing numbers of seniors on the internet, you wonder how long the Republicans' 55+ support can actually hold out. At any rate, the question is not if the strict conservative viewpoint is fading away, but how fast. Because it is fading. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 03:43 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Are you still saying that Trump is heralding in 20 years of Republican rule?

Of course I am. Nothing has changed over the last few days since the last time you asked me.

The effects of the 2013 gun control debacle will guarantee a Trump victory.

Once he reaches the White House, it'll be the end of the line for the Left.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 03:44 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
On the contrary, it is the strict conservatism of the 1980s that is slowly fading out.

80s Reaganism is done too. Mr. Trump is going to remake the Republican Party to suit his own views.

But the Republicans will have a better time of it than the Democrats will. They at least are not going to be shut out of power for a couple decades.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  6  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:29 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

snood wrote:
Are you still saying that Trump is heralding in 20 years of Republican rule?

Of course I am. Nothing has changed over the last few days since the last time you asked me.

The effects of the 2013 gun control debacle will guarantee a Trump victory.

Once he reaches the White House, it'll be the end of the line for the Left.

When Trump is exposed thoroughly as a huckster, and loses - very badly - in November, I will be interested in seeing how you spin it.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:33 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
When Trump is exposed thoroughly as a huckster, and loses - very badly - in November, I will be interested in seeing how you spin it.

Very unlikely that this will happen, given the 2013 gun control debacle.

But if my prediction is wrong, I'll shrug and say that my prediction was wrong.

If I do any postmortem of a Trump defeat, I would likely come to the conclusion that the 2013 gun control debacle did give Trump a huge boost, but that the Democrats were able to overcome it.

But I probably won't bother to worry about it. I've been right before and I've been wrong before. I'm right far more often than I am wrong, and that is good enough for me.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:22 pm
@oralloy,
You mean the prediction of 20 years of Republicans in the White House is just something you made up?

All this time I thought this was already written in a stone that you found on a mountain top somewhere and you were just relaying the information.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2016 06:10 am
@Blickers,
It's a prediction. I do not claim infallibility. My predictions are, however, rooted in sound logic.

Let's hope the Supreme Court kicks the gun control movement in the nuts this morning (or later this week).

I know, conventional wisdom is that we'll have to wait for more Republican appointees to the court before that will happen, and that is probably going to be the case. But you never know what a ruling will be until it is released.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2016 08:27 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Let's hope the Supreme Court kicks the gun control movement in the nuts this morning (or later this week).

I know, conventional wisdom is that we'll have to wait for more Republican appointees to the court before that will happen, and that is probably going to be the case. But you never know what a ruling will be until it is released.

Darn. Oh well. It was a long shot anyway. We need more conservatives on the Supreme Court.
0 Replies
 
 

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