Reincarnation Believers

History does show we are getting better. In the western countries, slavery has been abolished, Wars are fewer, and shorter, civil rights laws are seen posted in public places, and our government officials are voted on instead of having divine rights. Sure we have a long way to go, but the world is improving. Look around you.

Love

Hmm...hows about I put a spin on this...

So in Judaism, there isn't much focus on the afterlife because we belive you should focus on this life while you are living it. Also, the ancient Egyptians spent the majority of their lives planning for the afterlife, so having just been freed from slavery under them, whoever you believe really wrote the torah probably didn't want to draw too many similarities.

Anyway, due to the lack of detail given by God, people have made up their own stories, which is very common in Judaism, filling in the holes left by God. The only description (I may be wrong) is that there is a place that EVERYONE goes and it is down somewhere. That's it. It doesn't say if it is good or bad, if it is permanent or temporary, all it says is everyone goes there, it's down and it gives a name that I can't remember off the top of my head. Some people believe that this is permanent. You die and you go there and thats it. Some people belive that it's a holding place until God decides to send you elsewhere. Some believe that it is a holding place for your soul until you are reincarnated.

Whatever you believe, I just wanted to make you all aware that Bhudists are not the only ones who believe in reincarnation.

Personally, I don't believe either way. The ideas I described are meant to just be ideas to think about because we don't have the answers in this life. No one seriously debates them as far as Judaism goes because they're all made up by people, and we'll each find out when it comes.

And about that truth thing, there is the truth, and what we think is the truth. The truth is absolute. What you think is the truth is relative, it changes when you learn different facts about the truth, but it's not the truth. Like the whole thing about a tree falling in the woods making a sound or not. You didn't hear it fall, so did it truely make a sound? Just because you don't percieve something as true, or you percieve something false as true, doesn't make it true in any sense.

TonyO

Then why do you make issue of the fact that someone is not (materially) rich enough? Understanding of Karma, in fact reveals the futility of material pursuits and of killing, greed, wars committed for that. Some who realize that and don't pursue fleeting wealth and power beyond a point of basic need While some of us over here have ravaged other lands, killed natives and ripped them of their resources to become rich and powerful. Funny you should ask...
Why aren't people getting better morally? Try considering karma and consequences before acting on greed and power trip.

About Jesus: "I am the only way"
Humility of christ contradicts the usual dogmatic interpretation of this sentence.Consider a possibility of a pious fraud to assert the authority in early politics of christianity. There is enough documented history to support these possibilities. But if you are so utterly sure... you are entitled to have that opinion.

I respect Christ (Krista) as much I respect Krishna and Buddha. Same wisdom expressed in different words, in different times for different mindsets. They all help.

Hello bluesky.....thank you for the reply.

Why do you insist on skirting the issue. Again my materialistic place in life is not in question here. Please post where I said it matters if people are rich or not?

If you read my post again you will see I am asking a question about karma/reincarnation in REGARDS to the poor. I shall ask it again.

IF karma/reincarnation be true and we SHOULD be getting better (for lack of a better word at the moment) then please tell me WHY India, the largest proponent of karma/reincarnation, is also scarred by the worlds worst poverty?

Should not India be, if their belief system be true, be the best place to live on earth?

The reason karma is untrue is because it leaves you blank in your next life of where you went wrong. It is therefore illogical and goes against reason.


You wrote:



I await your evidence.
Tony

You (not me) are imposing an assumption "karma belief is meants to improve material prosperity" which is wrong and self concocted. Stop asking me to defend YOUR faulty assumptions.

And why do assume a place isn't the best to live unless they have material riches? Could you fathom that they could be "not desperate and hungry enough" to not attack other countries to rip off gold, land etc to be rich and powerful the way you seem to value so much AND keep bringing it up again and again as if it is relevant? Those who were rich once become poor and poor become rich. Read history. The wealth and power is FLEETING and has no relevance to the spiritual betterment. It will help the discussion if you stop confusing the two.

I revere Christ with or without evidence. But you seem to dismiss anyone who don't fit in with your "way". You are the one who should provide evidence and justification for such dismissive ways.

bluesky,

I appreciate your response and your input regarding this issue but I must withdraw from this with you as you continue to skirt the issues at hand.

Instead of dealing with the questions raised you take them and spin them as if I am claiming unless one is rich they are not worthy....etc. This is being intellectually dishonest for I never said anything of the sort, (strawman arguments on your part) nor have I ever stated I am rich and wealthy. I never stated that "karma belief is meants to improve material prosperity". you have placed these words in my mouth so to speak. This again is a strawman.

Lastly, it was YOU that brought up the subject of "documented history" about Christ and His claims. I only asked you for that evidence.

Take care and again thank you,
Tony

I am sure others following along may also see your shifting also.

TonyO

You said.
That does imply the assertion (by you) mentioned above in my post. No shift here.

Anyway, respect your decision to withdraw. I am OK and you are Ok too.


Love & Light.