Reincarnation Believers

Tony, to me, the caste system is merely a way of rationalizing slavery.

This quote is one of many reasons why I adore Edgar:

Quote:

Reincarnation sounds nice - But it's not possible. Like phoenix, I believe you get one go around. Then it's curtains, see? The big chill. One way across the Styxx. In a former life I was a naysayer, as in this one.

Sometimes you really remind me of Dys. LOL.

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But perhaps their karma is to find someone who will treat them with kindness despite their low station in life, TonyO.

I'm really agnostic in regard to any religious belief, including karma. But I do use it as a guiding force in my life, nonetheless. When faced with a challenge I will often chose the difficult path because I believe I will learn more about my life and the world on that path. I have few regrets in my life but the one's I do have come from the times I chose the easiest path.

Variety (of thought) is the spice of life, TonyO. I enjoy talking to you.

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Diane wrote:

Tony, to me, the caste system is merely a way of rationalizing slavery.

This quote is one of many reasons why I adore Edgar:

Quote:
Reincarnation sounds nice - But it's not possible. Like phoenix, I believe you get one go around. Then it's curtains, see? The big chill. One way across the Styxx. In a former life I was a naysayer, as in this one.

Sometimes you really remind me of Dys. LOL.

I agree Diane, it is slavery because it has no redeeming qualities, it offers no hope only a nagging thought of not knowing what lies after one takes their last breath.

Thank you Diance

boomerang wrote:

But perhaps their karma is to find someone who will treat them with kindness despite their low station in life, TonyO.

I'm really agnostic in regard to any religious belief, including karma. But I do use it as a guiding force in my life, nonetheless. When faced with a challenge I will often chose the difficult path because I believe I will learn more about my life and the world on that path. I have few regrets in my life but the one's I do have come from the times I chose the easiest path.

Variety (of thought) is the spice of life, TonyO. I enjoy talking to you.

I believe boomerang that, while we are fallen beings, we still have within us a need to not only be loved but to also love. We long for acceptance and in that longing many times we fill that void with money, sex, drugs and rock n roll but only the love of our Abba Father can fulfill that void. So in seeing the poor, the hungry and homeless our natural reaction SHOULD be to help, to provide comfort regardless of the suppossed consequences, as threatened by some forms of karma.

I have also enjoyed our brief chat Very Happy

Tony

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the caste system is so stupid to me

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i think any rational person would atleast think the current evidence (scientifical and other) is suggestive of reincarnation

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Since when can science test the reincarnation......or the metaphysical?

Tony

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reincarnate today and fix what your left unfinished yesterday

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as i said check out dr. stevenson's work, some of y'all are just too ignorant and too quick to shut the door

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A possibility
Many lives is a possibility, but cannot be proved (or even disproved) scientifically. But, if death is like sleep, the last thought we sleep with becomes the first thought of the next day. As long as there is a thought and instinct (mind stuff), there will be another day and life to live it out.

Caste system is nothing but categorization of these past instincts. There is nothing like high or low instinct here. That is just pure propaganda. The instincts are just different and yet all essential. Every society needs rulers/warriors, intellectuals, businessmen and workers/helpers. Just as the body needs limbs as well as brain.

Every society has and needs some formal or informal division of labor. But slavery doesn't recognize working class as humans and a part of the society and that is the difference between caste system and slavery. Unlike slavery, in cast system workers are part of the society and are given due respect. Even animals are deified and recognized for their role in the society.

Past Karma or past instinct merely defines your inclinations and role in the body of the society. The goal of spiritual teachings is to get past all instincts and stop this trajectory from one existence (instinct) to another. That is liberation, enlightenment, Samadhi or Nirvana. This goal is available for everyone irrespective of one's current instinct or position in the society. The enlightened sages of India came from all walks of the society. Some were kings, some were brahmins and some were mere cobblers, but the society as a whole reveres them.

Reincarnation as a doctrine offers is an awareness of consequences. What you do or think at this moment shapes the trajectory of the next moment. This attention is a very useful tool for spiritual practice in shifting the trajectory towards the divine.

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Hello bluesky,

Interesting post, thanks.

You wrote:

Quote:

Reincarnation as a doctrine offers is an awareness of consequences. What you do or think at this moment shapes the trajectory of the next moment. This attention is a very useful tool for spiritual practice in shifting the trajectory towards the divine.

If reincarnation be a method where ones ultimate goal is enlightenment, Nirvana or as some call it, "perfection", then can you tell me where it is you went wrong in your past life?

In other words how can you know where you need to improve if you have no "starting" point from your last "ending" point?

Thanks,
Tony

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Thanks for your feedback.

Reincarnation is not method for enlightenment. It is a tool to stress the importance of the present moment and its ability to affect you. Hindu/Buddhist thought stresses on practice of being in the present moment. Right here, right now. In fact to vacillate between past and future is a waste of energy. Such activities create dents in your space-time.

So worrying about "starting" point from your last "ending" point is not implied or rather advised against In BhagwadGita (a scripture), Arjuna, the confused warrior has the similar problem. Krishna, an incarnation of savior Vishnu says:-
Be here now (don't worry about past), just do the 'right thing', and then forget about the fruits/outcome of your action (don't get trapped in future too). This is the way you don't accumulate any Karma. All other actions including inaction will create Karma, a new trajectory for you. And what is that 'right thing' to do? Krishna defines it as it is something that is in benefit of multitude. Service, Duty and unselfish act have no karma irrespective of the starting point or ending point.

To translate it to our times and cultures...
We have many roles in the society. As a husband, son, friend, programmer and so on. With each role we have duties and contributions to make. Our past actions have created these roles and our merits, privileges and limitations. But what we really have is the present moment. Use it constructively, unselfishly and you will be sliding out of the Karma wave. You will experience the stillness of Samadhi. Right here.

Hope this addresses your question or rather the intention of your question.

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Gold Barz wrote:

just read the book by Dr. Stevenson, "Where Biology and Reincarnation Intersect", convincing evidence that might even concinve you

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=paranormal&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childpastlives.org%2Fbirthmrk.htm

http://falun-al.servehttp.com:99/recommended%20english%20articles/Evidence%20for%20Reincarnation.htm

Hi Gold Barz

Seems like you find yourself among a bunch of non-believers without really good evidence. There is some out there. There is the story of the boy in India who recognized a stranger as someone who owed him money in a past life. This is the best documented reincarnation story in existence. Carl Sagen, after reading the book of the case, remarked: "well I can't dispute the data, but I still don't believe it."

Unfortunately most people will react the same way. No matter how good the evidence is they will ignore it. So your desire to hold a debate on this kind of subject is chancey at best.

But, good luck. Oh, yes, I am a believer. This is my 59th time around, I am getting closer, maybe only a couple more to go.

Love

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I happen to believe in reincarnation as well. Also, I don't know what regigion or belief system you all possess. But when the Catholic religion was still in it's infancy, reincarnation was a belief of theirs. However, it was taken out do to the fact that they felt the general public was not intelligent enough to be able to understand it.

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WolfWithin wrote:

I happen to believe in reincarnation as well. Also, I don't know what regigion or belief system you all possess. But when the Catholic religion was still in it's infancy, reincarnation was a belief of theirs. However, it was taken out do to the fact that they felt the general public was not intelligent enough to be able to understand it.

Yes, that's right, and also they didn't want their followers to think they had more than one shot at life. Made their authority more powerful.

Love

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Lekatt wrote:

Gold Barz wrote:
just read the book by Dr. Stevenson, "Where Biology and Reincarnation Intersect", convincing evidence that might even concinve you

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=paranormal&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childpastlives.org%2Fbirthmrk.htm

http://falun-al.servehttp.com:99/recommended%20english%20articles/Evidence%20for%20Reincarnation.htm

Hi Gold Barz

Seems like you find yourself among a bunch of non-believers without really good evidence. There is some out there. There is the story of the boy in India who recognized a stranger as someone who owed him money in a past life. This is the best documented reincarnation story in existence. Carl Sagen, after reading the book of the case, remarked: "well I can't dispute the data, but I still don't believe it."

Unfortunately most people will react the same way. No matter how good the evidence is they will ignore it. So your desire to hold a debate on this kind of subject is chancey at best.

But, good luck. Oh, yes, I am a believer. This is my 59th time around, I am getting closer, maybe only a couple more to go.

Love

Your story is based on the subjective. There is nothing objective to test it against. You believe this to be proof of karma in action yet you deny that Jesus is God in the flesh? Odd

Tony

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WolfWithin wrote:

I happen to believe in reincarnation as well. Also, I don't know what regigion or belief system you all possess. But when the Catholic religion was still in it's infancy, reincarnation was a belief of theirs. However, it was taken out do to the fact that they felt the general public was not intelligent enough to be able to understand it.

Wolf...or anyone else claiming a belief in karma and reincarnation, if karma be something beneficial then please explain to me how is it that India is filled with poverty?

Does not karma seek to rid man of his selfish desires? Where then is the improvement in humans?

Tony

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Quote:

TonyO
Your story is based on the subjective. There is nothing objective to test it against. You believe this to be proof of karma in action yet you deny that Jesus is God in the flesh? Odd

Tony

Hi TonyO

Where did you read in my posts about Karma? I said nothing about Karma. I don't deny Jesus is God, it's just that He's not, He himself said to the person who called Him good: "I am not good, only God is good."

Probably need to hit the books and study awhile. You know, I don't even know what Karma is, I have heard it explained so many different ways.
Read and learn my friend, gain knowledge from many sources, not just one.

Oh, yes, everything is subjective, we can not do, learn, study, or anything else without our beliefs, they are with us always, and they put our spin, our understanding on everything. Science achieves "objectivity" by having many people doing the experiment over and over, but the wise ones admit to being influenced by their expectations and beliefs.

There is a great deal more than meets the eye in this world, don't fight it, learn from it, embrace it, love it.

Love

Love

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Hello.

While I am always in need of learning, I suggest that before you tell me to study you may want to brush up yourself. Let me expound as to why.

You wrote:

Quote:

Where did you read in my posts about Karma? I said nothing about Karma.

I never said you were a follower of karmic law. I only asked a question based on your claim that you believe in reincarnation. The story of the boy was from India which is based heavily upon the karmic law, hence my question.

You wrote:

Quote:

I don't deny Jesus is God, it's just that He's not,

This is a contradiction. First you claim that you don't deny Jesus is God then you make an absolute claim He is not. What gives there?

You wrote:

Quote:

He himself said to the person who called Him good: "I am not good, only God is good."

The passage reads - Mark 10:18
18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
NASU

Jesus is not denying He is God in this passage but rather asking the rich ruler to really think about what he has said.

Jesus calls Himself God in John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
NASU

Thomas, a devout Jew who would not call anyone God says this of Jesus in John 20:28
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
NASU

Now back to the rich young ruler and him calling Jesus "good". Jesus is either "good", thus He is then also God for God alone is truly good, or Jesus is a "bad man" for no man can be "good" in Gods eyes.

You wrote:

Quote:

Oh, yes, everything is subjective, we can not do, learn, study, or anything else without our beliefs, they are with us always, and they put our spin, our understanding on everything.

If everything is "subjective" then why do you feel the need to explain yourself? Should I listen to and adhere to your "subjective" beliefs? Your statement is illogical.

Thank you,
Tony

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Dear Tony

I have no wish to trade Bible verses with you. It will prove nothing. As far as I know Karma has nothing to do with reincarnation. If I had to explain Karma I would say it is the law of "Ye shall reap whatsoever ye sow."

You shouldn't listen and adhere to my subjective beliefs, you should form your own. Right now, you are just defending Christian doctrine.

As for Jesus being God, when you meet God you will see for yourself.

I don't plan to argue doctrine, only truth.

Love

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Hello Lekat,

Thanks for the reply Very Happy

You wrote:

Quote:

I don't plan to argue doctrine, only truth.

This is wonderful as I also seek Truth. Truth is Absolute and by its very nature exclusive. Would you agree?

Or do you see truth as being relative and not absolute?

Thank you,
Tony

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