Reincarnation Believers

Great posts by BlueSky.

Lekatt,
Rock on!

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TonyO wrote:

Hello Lekat,

Thanks for the reply

You wrote:

Quote:
I don't plan to argue doctrine, only truth.

This is wonderful as I also seek Truth. Truth is Absolute and by its very nature exclusive. Would you agree?

Or do you see truth as being relative and not absolute?

Thank you,
Tony

Truth can be relative or absolute, small or large, inclusive or exclusive. Truth is honesty, love, and integrity. One lives in the truth known, but realizes there is truth unknown. So life is spent seeking truth, not arguing about it. Learning to love is the ultimate truth. When one is filled with love and compassion, all knowledge is known. Jesus is the role model.

Love

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The trouble with truth is that it, like perfection, is a moving target.

Truth can only be understood on a given set of information at any given moment. Truth changes as new information is received, so what we may perceive as true today, may change when we learn new facts tomorrow.

I believe too, that love is the ultimate truth. I further believe that OneLoveInParticular is the ultimate love. And, indeed, Jesus is the model, the benchmark, so to speak, of the love we are all capable of achieving, or at least of the love we should be striving for.

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lekat, you wrote:

Quote:

Truth can be relative or absolute, small or large, inclusive or exclusive.

If one were to ask you, regarding your above statement, "Are you absolutely sure ?" What part then is true. that truth is absolute or reltaive?"

Sure truth can be relative, as in what's the best color, nicest car and such but Truth cannot be both relative and absolute at the same time for this would be contradictory.

To claim that there are no absolutes is to then verify an absolute.

Tony

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jesusgirl wrote:

Quote:

The trouble with truth is that it, like perfection, is a moving target.

Incorrect. You have described a realtive and subjective truth but not Absolute.

jesusgirl wrote:

Quote:

Truth can only be understood on a given set of information at any given moment.

Is this a truthful statement, and if so how can you be certain, since truth is, as you claimed above, "a moving target"?

jesusgirl wrote:

Quote:

Truth changes as new information is received, so what we may perceive as true today, may change when we learn new facts tomorrow.

This again is a relative and subjective truth. Absolutes do not change.

jesusgirl, if you truly hold to your above statements then perhaps, according to you, tomorrow this can change -

Quote:

I further believe that OneLoveInParticular is the ultimate love. And, indeed, Jesus is the model, the benchmark, so to speak, of the love we are all capable of achieving, or at least of the love we should be striving for

Would you agree?

Thank you,
Tony

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Tony,
No I don't agree. I believe though that there are things we will just have to agree to disagree on. That's not a problem with me.

OK, that being said, let me give you just one small example that occurred recently in Toronto and is addressed on another thread in A2K. This is a true story. I saw the report, complete with interviews, on CBC.

A man was hit and killed by a train. He had no identification on him but from his description, someone called a neighbor to tell her she thought it might be her drifter brother. Family members went to the morgue and identified the body as the brother. Funeral was held and the body was on its way to the crematorium. All but one family member attended the funeral. One stayed home because she said she just couldn't bear to go.

Truth 1: Brother dead.

Next.....another neighbor see the brother walking down the street toward home and when he says "hello", she says, "But your dead!" "They're having your funeral today." He says, "I'm not dead." Neighbor calls family home, speaks to woman who stayed home. Woman calls funeral home and stops the cremation of the man they had the funeral for.

Truth 2: New information changed the truth for that family and for the family of the unknown man. (If he has anybody. They still don't know who he is.)

So you see there is relative and there is absolute. Relative truth is based on known facts. Absolute truth is the real truth.

For another example. (Golly, I really love this one!)
Many moons ago, the humans on this planet KNEW that the Earth was flat and that is sailor's weren't careful they would just go and sail clear off the edge, as evidenced to them by the number of ships that never made it back to port.
That was their truth.

Somewhat fewer moons ago, it was discovered and concluded that the Earth is not flat, it is fairly round. That is the truth that came when more facts were learned.

It is my absolute belieft that each of us will find the Ultimate Truth in TheEnd.

You are free to believe otherwise. Smile

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well i believe re-incarnation occurs too

i belive peoples bodies die but the being or mind-energy that a person is does transfer to another body...
im into tibetan buddhism amongst other things spiritual and you have many lamas including the dalai lama who are reincarnaed beings...
but i guess youd have to talk to them to find out the 'truth' or their 'truth'

i personally have had sevral dreams and visions of what i believe was my other or past lives, but i have no 'proof'... its all in my mind Very Happy

you either believe it or you dont and its in the nature of us to stick to our beliefs like superglue
i dont get some discussion on a forum is going to change anyones mind

my advice for those who are into spiritual things is to study all you can about these issues with an open mind and to compare all the different religions and belief systems and spirituals systems out there...to see the bigger picture that connects them all
there are many great websites nowadays about metaphysical, spiritual and esoteric issues and belief systems

hehe to get biblical on you all :

seek and you will find Wink

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Jesusgirl22 wrote:

The trouble with truth is that it, like perfection, is a moving target.

Truth can only be understood on a given set of information at any given moment. Truth changes as new information is received, so what we may perceive as true today, may change when we learn new facts tomorrow.

I believe too, that love is the ultimate truth. I further believe that OneLoveInParticular is the ultimate love. And, indeed, Jesus is the model, the benchmark, so to speak, of the love we are all capable of achieving, or at least of the love we should be striving for.

Excellent thoughts. Yes, truth can be relative to our knowledge of the moment then change as new information is presented.

But ultimate truth is love. The only difficult thing is you can't find ultimate truth (love) until you live it.

Love

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Well said. Amen.

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TonyO

Quote:

if karma be something beneficial then please explain to me how is it that India is filled with poverty?

Since when material wealth is is a parameter of spiritual evolution? Was Jesus a billionaire? You seem to respect only rich ...

To be relevant to the thread, let me repeat in case you missed my previous post... Karma helps to be aware of consequences... The awareness alone helps. ..If you prefer Christ's words ... 'You shall reap what you sow'... the same insight. And perhaps like colman says 'Seek and you will find'

Thanks Jesusgirl and agree with you that each will find the end. And there are more than one means to the same end.

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from what i read jesus and buddha said pretty similar things..
i feel the two are very close to each other....

im also into the ultimate truth love vibe Very Happy

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BlueSky,
Precisely. We each have our own path to follow and we used be respectful enough of each other to allow each other to follow those paths, even if they do not mimic our own.

Love and peace to all today.

I'm going to be glued to a path to the truth of "where is that missing library book?" as I clear away the amass of papers on TheResidentBlackHole, otherwise known as the dining room table. Sigh.

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BlueSky,
Yes. Amen again.

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blueSky wrote:

TonyO

Quote:
if karma be something beneficial then please explain to me how is it that India is filled with poverty?

Since when material wealth is is a parameter of spiritual evolution? Was Jesus a billionaire? You seem to respect only rich ...

To be relevant to the thread, let me repeat in case you missed my previous post... Karma helps to be aware of consequences... The awareness alone helps. ..If you prefer Christ's words ... 'You shall reap what you sow'... the same insight. And perhaps like colman says 'Seek and you will find'

Thanks Jesusgirl and agree with you that each will find the end. And there are more than one means to the same end.

Love it when a thread comes together.

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Hello jesusgirl,

You wrote:

Quote:

A man was hit and killed by a train. He had no identification on him but from his description, someone called a neighbor to tell her she thought it might be her drifter brother. Family members went to the morgue and identified the body as the brother. Funeral was held and the body was on its way to the crematorium. All but one family member attended the funeral. One stayed home because she said she just couldn't bear to go.

Truth 1: Brother dead.

Next.....another neighbor see the brother walking down the street toward home and when he says "hello", she says, "But your dead!" "They're having your funeral today." He says, "I'm not dead." Neighbor calls family home, speaks to woman who stayed home. Woman calls funeral home and stops the cremation of the man they had the funeral for.

Truth 2: New information changed the truth for that family and for the family of the unknown man. (If he has anybody. They still don't know who he is.)

So you see there is relative and there is absolute. Relative truth is based on known facts. Absolute truth is the real truth.

If relative truth was a truth based on known facts then it would be a universal truth for all. Relative truth, in a nutshell, claims that what may be true for you may not be true for me. An Absolute is universally true for all people at all times. The truth in your above post is that someone died. Because one man was mistaken for the dean man does not show that "absolutes" change.

You wrote:

Quote:

Many moons ago, the humans on this planet KNEW that the Earth was flat and that is sailor's weren't careful they would just go and sail clear off the edge, as evidenced to them by the number of ships that never made it back to port.
That was their truth.

Somewhat fewer moons ago, it was discovered and concluded that the Earth is not flat, it is fairly round. That is the truth that came when more facts were learned.

Again this does not demonstrate that "absolutes" change. The earth has always been oval or round yet it was man who "discovered" that Absolute. Man did not invent or create this truth. If some men saw the earth as flat then they did so because of ignorance.

So again, Truth by its very nature weeds out error and falsehood. It cannot be all inclusive, meaning that the Hindu way and the Buddhist way nor the Mormon way can be the one true way for they all contradict one another. This is why Christ proclaimed, "I am the way the truth and the life" (John 14:6)

Thank you,
Tony

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Hello bluesky,

You wrote:

Quote:

Since when material wealth is is a parameter of spiritual evolution? Was Jesus a billionaire? You seem to respect only rich ...

This is avoiding the question raised. Whether I am rich or poor does not matter, and no Jesus was not a rich man in materials. So again if karma is true and one is then reincarnated, hopefully learning from their past failures, why then is India so distraught with poverty? Should not India, the place where karmic law/reincarnation is held by the majority to be true, be the place with the least amount of poverty?

Why aren't people getting better morally?

Thank you,
Tony

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Col Man wrote:

from what i read jesus and buddha said pretty similar things..
i feel the two are very close to each other....

im also into the ultimate truth love vibe

Buddha claimed to know of a way, Christ claimed to be God and He is the way.

There is nothing common in that for one claims exclusivness while the other just makes a claim.

Tony

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"Why aren't people getting better morally?"
Does this mean you think that all people are on a moral decline, or just some, or just most? Are you really in a position to judge the morals or all other people?

Regarding truth....I am truly growing tired of that discussion and will thus bow out for now. The real truth is I have a mountain of homework to do, now that the dining room table is cleared. Sigh.

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jesusgirl,

People are not getting better morally. Just look around you.

Did not the Lord warn that this would happen?

I understand your homework issue but please entertain for the moment a response to my questioning.

Since you seem to stand for Christ, is Jesus the only way or can there be other "ways"?

Thanks and I pray you get that homework finished Very Happy

Tony

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Geeze I wish I'd saved my profile from Abuzz...

Tony,
I'm a fan of Jesus...the man and whatever more.

Do I think that Jesus is the way to what????
Heaven???
No. Oy. OK....my views on religion and God, which do not necessarily belong in the same room do not necessarily run concurrent with what most other "Christians" would accept as plausible and most certainly not proper in some quarters.

So then, is Jesus the only to God/Heaven. Not as far as I understand. My understanding is that every human is a child of God, whether they believe It or not.

There are many who will shout it till Doomsday that only those who believe in Him will be "saved". I say....I doubt that VERY, VERY much.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. Either way, whether God is or isn't, I still believe that the bottom line of it is that we are all just supposed to play nice for whatever time we're here. Period.

I'm sorry you think the human race is so much worse today. Worse than when, I have to ask though.

Maybe this is one of those half glass things. You know, you see the glass half empty. I see the glass half full. Maybe it's something like that.

All I know, is that I continue to see minor miracles every day, every time I take the time to look.

Well, I guess I could expound more but now here and not now. Besides, I suspect even if I did, I would just incur a multitude of insults and slings such as I did on Abuzz, which is part of the reason I didn't join this little earlier. I guess you could just say I'm gun shy.

Either way my contention remains that each of us will find our own way, regardless of what anybody else says.

By the way, I'm being very bad by being here at the moment, but I don't think I'll rot in hell because of it. Smile

Peace,

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