Faith

@Finn dAbuzz,

Even when one involves all man-made religions, none is innocent of human suffering.
A good example are two christian nations at war, and they pray to the 'same' god.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

why do you think that? Atheists exist without a god. Youve done a fairly complete job of laying out the conditions of atheism.
Id add one thing about "life after". We all have a complement of genes and a biological "bar code" that has my gene complement (and yours), striving for continuence of our sub species. thats a "life after" , no?

It takes a life to transfer its " life-code"(with alterations) to the next generation, and so on.

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@farmerman,

When I think about our biology and how far back my ancestors go, it's an amazing thought. I'm the product of all my ancestors; with all the good and bad genes that go with it.
Having researched my ancestors, I can only go back to great-great grandfather who was samurai, but back then most men were in our country - if not merchants or farmers. I'm sure it was the same in other cultures.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Belief is what you have when, after weighing the evidence, there is not enough proof for your supposition. So belief becomes the substitute for knowing.

Faith is what is applied to something whose existence is not in question, but whose qualities are not readily seen and which may be in question.

Quote:

It makes sense to me that there is a God and a hereafter. I can't prove it, so I have faith in it.

You have described a belief that you have. The best you can do as far as faith is concerned is to claim a faith in your ability to know what there is no proof of. You have faith in your belief.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Belief is what you have when, after weighing the evidence, there is not enough proof for your supposition. So belief becomes the substitute for knowing.

Faith is what is applied to something whose existence is not in question, but whose qualities are not readily seen and which may be in question.

Not at all. God's existence is very much in question to billions of people.

Quote:
It makes sense to me that there is a God and a hereafter. I can't prove it, so I have faith in it.

You have described a belief that you have. The best you can do as far as faith is concerned is to claim a faith in your ability to know what there is no proof of. You have faith in your belief.

Faith and belief are essentially the same thing.

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@Glennn,

Here's a good article on faith and belief.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rea-nolan-martin/faith-and-belief_b_4166117.html

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

God's existence is very much in question to billions of people.

Yes, and that's why belief in the god is a matter of belief and not faith.

Quote:

Faith and belief are essentially the same thing.

There is a difference. Faith is something you have in someone or something. Belief is something you have due to the absence of the alleged someone or something.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

You believe that the god is.

You have faith that the god is . . . what?

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@Glennn,

I'm not religious, but even I can answer that. He's a 'loving god.'
Man created the 'loving god' and the 'devil satan.' Man needs opposites to make it interesting.

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@Glennn,

Well, we disagree.

I think we are getting in the weeds here.

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@Glennn,

I have faith that God exists, that he is the creator of all things and loves (for lack of a better word) his creations.

Beyond that I wouldn't presume to know the full nature of God.

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@cicerone imposter,

I don't, BTW believe that Satan or a negative force exists in opposition to God.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

I have faith that God exists, that he is the creator of all things and loves (for lack of a better word) his creations.

You cannot have faith in something that exists only in the realm of your beliefs. No one wants to relegate the object of their belief to the realm of simple belief, and that's why they opt to call semantics into play for the purpose of increasing the reality of something that has yet to be proven real. So they attempt to upgrade their belief by calling it faith. But it's still a belief.

Faith is a belief in the structure or behavior of something whose existence is evident. For instance, you have faith that your wife will not betray you. And that faith is applicable because it has to do with the behavior of something that is tangible--your wife. She is not a belief; she is a reality.

You acquired your belief in the god from a book. You borrowed another's belief, even to the extent that you believe that God is its name, and creating is its game, and that it is a male. Believers tend to ignore the fact that their beliefs are the result of having been influenced.

In what way do you believe that the god you believe in loves its creation?

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Every time I read about a loving god, I am reminded of the killing fields in Cambodia, the Jewish holocaust, the Iraq debacle, and I say to myself, This kind of love I don't need.

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@Glennn,

I'll say one thing Glennn, you are the most dogged determined nay sayer of God I ever ran across.

Who do you work for anyway!

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Edgar is a close second :-)

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I'll say one thing Glennn, you are the most dogged determined nay sayer of God I ever ran across.

It's an illusion. You are not acknowledging the equally doggedly determined ye-sayers of the god that precede all of my rebuttals.

Quote:

Who do you work for anyway!

Satan. Why do you ask?

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@Glennn,

Just check'n ..

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@edgarblythe,

If wars were not fuelled by faith, I am sure those who drive them would find an alternative source. Fear is swiftly becoming an equally powerful motivator.

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@Smileyrius,

It might be helpful, in a discussion partially about defining the nature of faith, to think of fear and faith as opposites.

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