Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 11:27 am
Some people claim to be religious, but they struggle to understand the meaning of “faith.” What is faith, and why is it important?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 8,580 • Replies: 231

 
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 11:30 am
@anthony1312002,
Tony, faith to the apodictical existential pantheist is assurance that there's something going on out there (and in here) to which we're not entirely privy but to which one might, if he wishes, attach the noun "God"

And so, somebody, why important
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 01:28 pm
Faith is belief without evidence.
anthony1312002
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 01:48 pm
@snood,
I have heard that. But what do you think about what the Bible’s definition is of faith?

Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.

It speaks of the assured expectation or sure realization of things to come.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 01:50 pm
@anthony1312002,
That sounds like belief without evidence.

You can have faith in something that isn't true. You can be completely sure that you are going to win the lottery.... even though you never will..
Seizan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 04:53 pm
“The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence.”

William Harwood: Dictionary of contemporary Mythology, London, 1st Books, 2002.

I guess it depends on your point of view...
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 06:02 pm
@Seizan,
Having faith is the same as being crazy?Guess that would hold for any parent, teacher or loved one that ever had faith in you too, huh?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 08:06 pm
@Seizan,
I guess most of "us" are insane. I'm an atheist. My faith is based on what science tells us.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 11:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Most Atheists do have faith. But it isn't in science. Science is based on what can be tested or observed, so science isn't faith.

You can not believe in human rights without faith (since the claim that humans have rights can't be tested or observed by science). We just believe that humans have rights because we want to.

Many atheists claim that things like human rights, and moral values and meaning are proven by science, but they are deceiving themselves. Science says nothing about these things.

But that is how faith works.


Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2016 11:59 pm
@Seizan,
Belief in something that there is inconclusive evidence for is not the same as belief in something contradicted by evidence.
0 Replies
 
Seizan
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 12:43 am
@snood,
The quote was really rather tongue-in-cheek, didn't you get that?

However...

Often people who are in love (or love their families) are thought of as "crazy" -- but seldom by themselves. Mostly by others who don't have their strength of faith in the family (family values, bonds between members, etc.). This goes for almost any belief system

People who are "with you" in your faith (of whatever) also believe in you and help to fortify that belief system.

People "on the outside" of that faith system often think you are "crazy".

So, it depends on your point of view (whether you are on the inside or the outside)...
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 06:27 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Most Atheists do have faith. But it isn't in science. Science is based on what can be tested or observed, so science isn't faith.


Science can be tested and observed, but the majority of people who trust the word of scientists don't test it. They take it on faith.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 06:43 am
@Kolyo,
Yes, Kolyo... I agree with the point you are making. But that is different than the point I made in my post.

Many atheists hold deep beliefs that are in reality unproven even though they ascribe them to science. If the word "science" is used to describe things that haven't been tested or observed, than "science" is no longer different than any other religion based on faith.

I am talking about beliefs that no one (not even scientists) have tested.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 08:31 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
That sounds like belief without evidence.

You can have faith in something that isn't true. You can be completely sure that you are going to win the lottery.... even though you never will..
Actually, we are in the realm of anecdotal vs empirical. Hard science vs intuition.

I am generally amused by the faith many folks have in their perception of faith.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 08:32 am
I have faith that my faith is faithless.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 08:46 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am talking about beliefs that no one (not even scientists) have tested.
And there is a considerable pile of those beliefs, even among those purists who claim science as their sole source of beliefs.

That ought to tell us something, but it usually doesn't.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 09:09 am
@anthony1312002,
anthony1312002 wrote:

Some people claim to be religious, but they struggle to understand the meaning of “faith.


I don't think that faith is critical to being a "religious" person. As you may or may not know there are religions which are not based on "faith".

They may have a mystical aspect , such as do the religions of Judaism and Islam, but this is completely different from your ideas about so-called "faith".

Not all religions are centered on the New Testament and many, many humans could care less about the quote from Hebrews, posted by you.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 10:54 am
@Kolyo,
We take it on 'faith,' because there's nothing more self-proving. If one questions science, can they disprove what scientists tells us? I think not.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 03:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If one questions science, can they disprove what scientists tells us? I think not.
Well, it happens all the time. And that is supposed to be one of its hallmarks ya know -

Remember it's falsifiable, otherwise, it ain't science.

But I admire you unshakable faith CI.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2016 05:50 pm
@Leadfoot,
That's the reason why science can be depended upon. It continues to correct itself when new information or technology proves past theories to be wrong.
Nobody can change the bible's testaments, it's errors, and contradictions.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
 

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