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Iraq: No Win Situation

 
 
Harper
 
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 06:24 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/opinion/31krugman.html?hp


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OP-ED COLUMNIST
A No-Win Situation
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: August 31, 2004



"Everyone wants to go to Baghdad; real men want to go to Tehran." That was the attitude in Washington two years ago, when Ahmad Chalabi was assuring everyone that Iraqis would greet us with flowers. More recently, some of us had a different slogan: "Everyone worries about Najaf; people who are really paying attention worry about Ramadi."

Ever since the uprising in April, the Iraqi town of Falluja has in effect been a small, nasty Islamic republic. But what about the rest of the Sunni triangle?

Last month a Knight-Ridder report suggested that U.S. forces were effectively ceding many urban areas to insurgents. Last Sunday The Times confirmed that while the world's attention was focused on Najaf, western Iraq fell firmly under rebel control. Representatives of the U.S.-installed government have been intimidated, assassinated or executed.

Other towns, like Samarra, have also fallen to insurgents. Attacks on oil pipelines are proliferating. And we're still playing whack-a-mole with Moktada al-Sadr: his Mahdi Army has left Najaf, but remains in control of Sadr City, with its two million people. The Christian Science Monitor reports that "interviews in Baghdad suggest that Sadr is walking away from the standoff with a widening base and supporters who are more militant than before."

For a long time, anyone suggesting analogies with Vietnam was ridiculed. But Iraq optimists have, by my count, already declared victory three times. First there was "Mission Accomplished" - followed by an escalating insurgency. Then there was the capture of Saddam - followed by April's bloody uprising. Finally there was the furtive transfer of formal sovereignty to Ayad Allawi, with implausible claims that this showed progress - a fantasy exploded by the guns of August.

Now, serious security analysts have begun to admit that the goal of a democratic, pro-American Iraq has receded out of reach. Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies - no peacenik - writes that "there is little prospect for peace and stability in Iraq before late 2005, if then."

Mr. Cordesman still thinks (or thought a few weeks ago) that the odds of success in Iraq are "at least even," but by success he means the creation of a government that "is almost certain to be more inclusive of Ba'ath, hard-line religious, and divisive ethnic/sectarian movements than the West would like." And just in case, he urges the U.S. to prepare "a contingency plan for failure."

Fred Kaplan of Slate is even more pessimistic. "This is a terribly grim thing to say," he wrote recently, "but there might be no solution to the problem of Iraq" - no way to produce "a stable, secure, let alone democratic regime. And there's no way we can just pull out without plunging the country, the region, and possibly beyond into still deeper disaster." Deeper disaster? Yes: people who worried about Ramadi are now worrying about Pakistan.

So what's the answer? Here's one thought: much of U.S. policy in Iraq - delaying elections, trying to come up with a formula that blocks simple majority rule, trying to install first Mr. Chalabi, then Mr. Allawi, as strongman - can be seen as a persistent effort to avoid giving Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani his natural dominant role. But recent events in Najaf have demonstrated both the cleric's awesome influence and the limits of American power. Isn't it time to realize that we could do a lot worse than Mr. Sistani, and give him pretty much whatever he wants?

Here's another thought. President Bush says that the troubles in Iraq are the result of unanticipated "catastrophic success." But that catastrophe was predicted by many experts. Mr. Cordesman says their warnings were ignored because we have "the weakest and most ineffective National Security Council in post-war American history," giving control to "a small group of neoconservative ideologues" who "shaped a war without any realistic understanding or plans for shaping a peace."

Yesterday Mr. Bush, who took a "winning the war on terror" bus tour just a few months ago, conceded that "I don't think you can win" the war on terror. But he hasn't changed the national security adviser, nor has he dismissed even one of the ideologues who got us into this no-win situation. Rather than concede that he made mistakes, he's sticking with people who will, if they get the chance, lead us into two, three, many quagmires.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,563 • Replies: 31
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 06:50 am
It would appear that Iraq has become a cancer with no cure in sight. The question is will we be in the end forced to cut off the infected area.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:27 am
So, if we can't win in Iraq, and we can't win the war on terror, what should we do with our war president?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:28 am
Who says we can't win in Iraq? We already did.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:29 am
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:35 am
Point: Saying we can't win in Iraq is ludicrous. The Germans and Japanese 60 years ago were a lot tougher, better equipped and better trained than our enemies in Iraq. We can win if we want to.

Counterpoint: There are a lot of very well funded and anti-American people (some in Iran and some in Syria) who will keep this going as long as it takes to meet their goals. They know they can commit any barbarity and get away with it, while the world press will nitpick us on everything we do. They also know Americans don't have the stomach for a long campaign, or for taking casualties.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:38 am
Interesting take on it, Jim.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:05 am
McG

Who says we can't win in Iraq? We already did.

Wake up and smell the roses. Even your revered president has since his trip to the Lincoln stopped making that claim. We may eventually "Win." But the question is will it be a Pyrrhic victory. Will a theocratic government allied with Iran or a strong one man government which is common in that part of the world or a civil war between the three powerful factions in Iraq or a democratically elected government as touted by Bush arises out of the ashes? Will the US have won a victory? Will the loss in men and the expense have been justified?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:13 am
Let me see...

Saddam Hussein no longer posing a threat to the US... Check.
A sovereign government now running the country... Check
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:32 am
You might want to look up the word 'sovereign'.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:46 am
OK.

1 a : one possessing or held to possess sovereignty b : one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere c : an acknowledged leader : ARBITER

Seems right to me. Did you think it meant something else?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:49 am
You might want to dig and see how much control we still maintain.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:56 am
Oh, ok, I'll do it for you.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/occupation/2004/0513usgrip.htm
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:01 am
Considering there is more than one city that is still under rebel control, and we were completely unable to deal with the Sadr situation until Al Sistani came and cleaned things up, and that I just read that 15 people were killed in Iraq today,

No. We haven't won yet. We haven't achieved a standing peace in the region, and until we do, it's not a victory.

Why? We can't pull our forces out until there is peace without looking like abandoning the country. Paradoxically, I doubt there will be peace until our forces leave.

We didn't make any friends in Iraq. Public opinion of the U.S. in Iraq right now is ****. The poll numbers are all way down in the last few months, and who can blame them? We haven't shown ourselves as being especially intelligent when it comes to governing the place, and a lot of Iraqis are jobless while Americans are profiting off of their wreckage.

What good does it do to overthrow Saddam if the next guy hates us just as much? If the populace hates us?

The violence isn't going to end any time soon. So, no, mission most definately NOT accomplished.

Nice try tho, McG.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:04 am
With great regret I have to agree with Cycloptichorn's analysis.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:06 am
I get that a lot.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:08 am
McGentrix
Open up your eyes and if you do you may discover that the Clerics are presently in control. They can stop or start the fighting any time they choose to. And neither the installed government or the US can do any thing about. We are between a rock and a hard place. And that my friend after spending $150 billion, 1000 dead and 26,000 wounded. We may be able to extricate ourselves from Iraq. But win?????
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:15 am
Au, you are right on with that one.

It's not a victory unless ten years from now, Iraq is a pro-American nation that thanks us for removing Saddam. Things would have to take a pretty big 180 for that to happen, but it is possible - I haven't given up hope yet.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:24 am
McGentrix
Saddam was not posing a threat to us when we invaded. What than was our great accomplishment?
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:44 am
One only needs to ask: if we left today, what would the situation in Iraq be? IMNSHO it would be as bad or worse than we went in. That's MY opinion. However, no rational person can say that the situation would be any better than at the minimum complete chaos.
0 Replies
 
 

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