Jesus was a Left-winger

I certainly think so, at this point anyway. He definitely was not a businessman.

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There was no left wing or right wing in Jesus's time, but Jesus wasn't a liberal.

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1q2w3e wrote:

There was no left wing or right wing in Jesus's time, but Jesus wasn't a liberal.

Your evidence or logic being?

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blatham wrote:

1q2w3e wrote:
There was no left wing or right wing in Jesus's time, but Jesus wasn't a liberal.

Your evidence or logic being?

Gosh, only conservatives have to support their opinions here? What a frikkin enlightened board!

He didn't think people should ever divorce their spouses, or swear, and he encourages the ascetic life and keeping the old laws.

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1q2w3e wrote:

keeping the old laws

Actually, His sacrifice was meant to break the Old Covenant and establish an entirely New one, moving from Moses's Law to Christ's Law.

I'm not sure if I would describe Christ as a left-winger or a right-winger, or if He would even fit either classification, but I do know that Christ's death was the beginning of a New Law.

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The more that I think about this question, the more absurd it becomes.

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1q2w3e wrote:

blatham wrote:
1q2w3e wrote:
There was no left wing or right wing in Jesus's time, but Jesus wasn't a liberal.

Your evidence or logic being?

Gosh, only conservatives have to support their opinions here? What a frikkin enlightened board!

He didn't think people should ever divorce their spouses, or swear, and he encourages the ascetic life and keeping the old laws.

No, anyone who makes a claim that something is true ought to support that claim. For example, I could write a post saying Jesus was probably a homosexual or that more Republicans are charged (per capita) with child abuse than are Green Party members. What worth is such a statement by itself, without some evidence or rationale to make it understandable or believable?

When someone makes such a truth claim, the burden of proving it (or at least, making it compelling) falls to that person.

Now, where did Jesus say that one ought not to swear? And how did he define 'swear'? And what passage, in Jesus' words, gives an admonition against divorce? And same with ascetic life? And what would he have meant by 'ascetic'? And how do you know that? Likewise, where is the passage on old laws?
But more to the point, why would you use those criteria to describe a liberal? John DiIulio, who was the fellow Bush first put in charge of the faith based initiatives, related in Esquire magazine two years ago a time when he walked past Carl Rove's office and Car was yelling "You tell him that we will f*ck him like he's never been f*cked before!" And we know from Tucker Carlson that Bush swears a lot. And do you consider that either Bush or Kerry or Rove or Clinton live an ascetic life?

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blatham wrote:

Now, where did Jesus say that one ought not to swear?

Matthew 5:33-37

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Quote:

And how did he define 'swear'?

This is where the cookie crumbles. Heck if you take it too literally, it appears that he think all conversations should consist of "yea" and "nay".

Apart from sounding like a herd of goats it sounds boring.

Quote:

And what passage, in Jesus' words, gives an admonition against divorce?

There's a lot on this one.

Mark 10:2-12

2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:3-9

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 5:31-32

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18

18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

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didn't know jesus could play rugby - if I had I would have pegged him as a half back or fly half at least

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I always thought that when Jesus said not to swear but only to say yay or nay, that he meant to always tell the truth and then there will be no need to swear that you are telling the truth.

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He's a progressive. A populist. Smile

Perhaps a green party leader. He was pro-environment, yaknow - walked everywhere.

Cycloptichorn

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Thanks, craven. That's what we need.

Craven de Kere wrote:

blatham wrote:
Now, where did Jesus say that one ought not to swear?

Matthew 5:33-37

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Quote:
And how did he define 'swear'?

This is where the cookie crumbles. Heck if you take it too literally, it appears that he think all conversations should consist of "yea" and "nay".

Apart from sounding like a herd of goats it sounds boring.

Yes, and that is precisely the problem. Pity none of us here reads Ancient Hebrew. "Swearing" in these passages has a quite different apparent meaning than it does in modern English.

Quote:
And what passage, in Jesus' words, gives an admonition against divorce?

There's a lot on this one.

Mark 10:2-12

2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:3-9

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 5:31-32

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18

18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Yup, I was aware of some of these.

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Jesus was a Left-winger

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