sfws

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .

you ol' right wingnut, you . . .



okbye

You guys, you know you can report stuff, right?

Speaking of dreams last night, here's a blast from the past, by S & G, from their 1964 album:

Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war
I dreamed I saw a mighty room
The room was filled with men
And the paper they were signing said
They'd never fight again

And when the papers all were signed
And a million copies made
They all joined hands and bowed their heads
And grateful prayers were prayed
And the people in the streets below
Were dancing round and round
And guns and swords and uniforms
Were scattered on the ground

Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war

I do believe that was written by the "Village" folk singer Ed McCurdy . . .

wahtever
Why do you keep mentioning the same crap over and over agian. I never said Kennedy started it but I stand by the fact that kennedy perpetuated it dramatically, and was intimately involved in its creation. He was the president after all, and I believe the Vietnam War memorial years go from 1960-75. This right wing conspriacy agisnt kennedy is realy over blown by you perosnally i have never run into it, Ted Kennedy yes. BUt come on man stop trying to leave kennedy out of it by proxy to others the president is the f'ing president, I have studied Vietnam and am not some amatuer, incidently your great victory of Dien Ben Phu cost over 10,000 viet lives and only 1,500 french forign legion deaths, don't leave the legion part out of the story there. 10,000 viets is like what population wise to the french 300,000++ lives.

Some time ago a crazy dream came to me,
I dreamt I was walkin' into World War Three,
I went to the doctor the very next day
To see what kinda words he could say.
He said it was a bad dream.
I wouldn't worry 'bout it none, though,
They were my own dreams and they're only in my head.

I said, "Hold it, Doc, a World War passed through my brain."
He said, "Nurse, get your pad, this boy's insane,"
He grabbed my arm, I said "Ouch!"
As I landed on the psychiatric couch,
He said, "Tell me about it."

Well, the whole thing started at 3 o'clock fast,
It was all over by quarter past.
I was down in the sewer with some little lover
When I peeked out from a manhole cover
Wondering who turned the lights on.

Well, I got up and walked around
And up and down the lonesome town.
I stood a-wondering which way to go,
I lit a cigarette on a parking meter
And walked on down the road.
It was a normal day.

Well, I rung the fallout shelter bell
And I leaned my head and I gave a yell,
"Give me a string bean, I'm a hungry man."
A shotgun fired and away I ran.
I don't blame them too much though,
I know I look funny.

Down at the corner by a hot-dog stand
I seen a man, I said, "Howdy friend,
I guess there's just us two."
He screamed a bit and away he flew.
Thought I was a Communist.

Well, I spied a girl and before she could leave,
"Let's go and play Adam and Eve."
I took her by the hand and my heart it was thumpin'
When she said, "Hey man, you crazy or sumpin',
You see what happened last time they started."

Well, I seen a Cadillac window uptown
And there was nobody aroun',
I got into the driver's seat
And I drove 42nd Street
In my Cadillac.
Good car to drive after a war.

Well, I remember seein' some ad,
So I turned on my Conelrad.
But I didn't pay my Con Ed bill,
So the radio didn't work so well.
Turned on my player-
It was Rock-A-Day, Johnny singin',
"Tell Your Ma, Tell Your Pa,
Our Loves Are Gonna Grow Ooh-wah, Ooh-wah."

I was feelin' kinda lonesome and blue,
I needed somebody to talk to.
So I called up the operator of time
Just to hear a voice of some kind.
"When you hear the beep
It will be three o'clock,"
She said that for over an hour
And I hung it up.

Well, the doctor interrupted me just about then,
Sayin, "Hey I've been havin' the same old dreams,
But mine was a little different you see.
I dreamt that the only person left after the war was me.
I didn't see you around."

Well, now time passed and now it seems
Everybody's having them dreams.
Everybody sees themselves walkin' around with no one else.
Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time.
But all the people can't be all right all the time
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.
"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,"
I said that.

Positively, Dys, positively . . .



JB, one might inquire with as much justification why you are so bent on pinning all of this on Kennedy. From a perspective of the people of Indochina, the entire affair lasted from about 1940 to 1980, so perspective matters a great deal. Your obsession with Kennedy strongly suggests that you lack that perspective.

yep
didn't it realy start in 41-42 with the Japs and our OSS guys. I think 1940 is too early, I know all of that, i know about the letters to our presidents from Ho Chi MInh, and all. I am merely responding to your pristine unblemished, dietic view of kennedy in relation to Vietnam, which I believe to be a farce and which i hold kennedy responsible for. That is not to say that he personally engineered it, but instead that he played a vital role(f'ing president") in its evolution, come on man you can't deny that, the only reason I'm talking about him is because of your "convenient" view of him. Republicans could care less about kennedy.

You cling to your distortions. The Japanese occupied Indochina in 1940 after the Germans set up their puppet government in Vichy. I will continue to assert that you are simply retailing a myth about Kennedy's role because i have heard ad naseum from the right wing lunatic fringe, since the late 1960's, that "Kennedy got us into this war," as though there had never been a Franklin Roosevelt, never had been a Brit commitment to the Vietmihn, never had been a Bill Donovan, never had been a Harry Truman, never had been a Dwight Eisenhower. Kennedy was one link in a long chain, and whether or not it is your intent, your insistence on magnifying the significance of his role is part and parcel of the rage of right wing extremists who were enraged from the day in 1960 when Kennedy announced his candidacy. They tried to shoot him down as a Catholic, they tried to shoot him down as a Liberal, they tried to shoot him down as a Boston elitist--and when he won the election despite their fuming hatred, they began the process of vilification which has not ceased to this day. I've never in any of this suggested that Republicans as a class give Kennedy much thought. The lunatic fringe on the right continue to try to smear the man, more than 40 years after he was buried. For whatever your intent, you are engaged in just the same false magnification of his role in southeast Asia which those fanatics have cobbled together from distortions, half-truths and outright lies because they still hate the man.

The modern equivalent of this among Republicans is the obsessive hatred of the Clintons. I have every reason to expect that it will still obsess the lunatic fringe forty years after they are buried.

In September, 1940, the Japanese Empire signed an accord with Vichy authorities in French Indochina for basing and transit rights in that territory. The accords limited Imperial occupation forces to 6000. Fewer than 24 hours after signing the accords, the Japanese sent the 5th Infantry division under Nakamura, with supporting light armor and service troops to a total of approximately 30,000 troops from Canton to Hanoi. Nakamura's division marched on paralell roads, intent on concentrating at Lang Son, about 10 miles into Indochina. Vichy had about 5,000 troops in the vicinity of Lang Son, a Tonkinese regiment, an otherwise unspecified (and likely Annamese) Colonial regiment, and a "foreign" infantry regiment (regular army, not to be confused with the légion etrangère--interestingly, it included about 200 Germans), with some 75's and 155's in support--basically, a reinforced brigade intended to operate independently. Reaching the border on the evening of September 21, Nakamura assured the assembly of each unit, and launched an attack carefully planned in advance, at 10:00 p.m. on September 22d. The details of the Vichy débacle thereafter are unimportant. A task force which had already come to station in the Gulf of Tonkin landed at Haiphong on September 26. Both Nakamura and the task force ground commander, Nishimura, were later "scolded" by the Imperial government, and the forces were withdrawn. The Japanese retained possession of Haiphong, and kept a well armed, supported battalion in Hanoi. Camran Bay became a major naval air station. The 5th division was withdrawn to China, and General Sumita came along to soothe Vichy egos, putting a fig leaf on the de facto Japanese takeover of the province, and to lay the groundwork for the invasion force which would invade Malaysia and take Singapore in 1941-42.

Denying that this constitutes the occupation of Indochina by the Japanese is rather akin to claiming that Kennedy is responsible for the Viet Nam war. It would be a niave and partisan oversimplification of an incredibly complex series of events.

Belushi, trapped inside that knucklehead is a real love of history. Why don't you take advantage of Set's historical knowledge...?

sdfsd
you guys a e too much, I wasn't 100% that it was 1940 and not 1941, excuse me it dosn't sound like any mistake on my part there i knew the Japs were vietnam in WWII, dosn't sound anything like a full take over force was in Vietnam in 1940 by your numbers so i stand by myself. God you need to relax man, also I keep having to say that kennedy is not the sole resposible person, just that he had resposnsibility, your the one denying that. Whatever if you want to try to butt heads in military history go ahead, I'm more than willing to compare my penis size with you, it seems to be the way your going here.

sdfs
the ironic thing is that i don't even fault kennedy for his commitment to vietnam

I've never denied that Kennedy was one of the responsible parties. I am relaxed, you're the one who rants here, calls people vile names, and screams in all caps. You are the one that needs to get a grip.

sdgsd
of course he was part, no one would say that kennedy was some how isolated in a bubble, I hav ebeen joking i thought it was evident by my demeneor. I guess not but my pappy alwsy said you can never lose your f'ing sense of humor.

whatever I guess veitnam was a worthy commitment, just a bad allocation of resources and tactics.

I need to go look this up:
One of my most vivid childhood memories was sitting on our porch and reading "100th US Causality in South Viet Nam " in the Manchester Herald. Seems to me that was Spring, 1960 maybe earlier. Now I have to go see. I remember thinking :"Where the hell is South Viet Nam?"


Joe

Not sure about the 100th, but I know the first US casualty in Vietnam was prior to 1960. If that helps. I think it was 1958. Hmmm, now I'm gonna have to go look that up too.

Errrrrrrrrr
If you want to be technical before I believe the actual casualties for what we consider the vietnam war( most people think 1965-73) but it has been exppanded to include I believe 1960-75. the oss trained anamites but I'm not sure they fought Along side them, mainly stealing rice cahces, and weapons/ammo. and i remember seeing a PBS show with one of the guys who dropped in and trained the vietminh( the Vietminh have same flag as that earlier group who's rebellion was squashed in 1930's.) I know we had some casualties dropping supplies over Dien Bien Phu. whether earlier than 1954...I wouldn't be surprised, but thats not our Indo China war, at that stage before kennedy we could have never had a war, but with Kennedy and his role( duely paranoid after Cuba) we started losing people on what you would call a as far as our curent commitment in Iraq or Afghanistan is concerned "regular basis", some people think Kennedy didn't exist during the Vietnam war and they are sorely mistaken. Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, BLANK, Johnson, "evil" Nixon, is how our commitemnt to vietnam is portrayed by many leftists, tell that to those brave men like lieutenant Kelly's friends and family. ( was a famous medevac guy in 1962 who made hueys commit to life saving instead of what the brass wanted interms of tactical support for infantry sweeps, he was killed doing this.) many fought to get their loved ones names put on the memorial, tell that to Kennedy's peace nicks.

Pathetic rant . . . you're not worth wasting any more time . . .

Huh? I'm drawn to johnbelushi's posts as I would be to watching an out-of-control semi rushing down a hill, with no brakes and a mad dog at the wheel. Hard to know how it's going to end up, but it won't be pretty...

Unfortunately, D'art, i assumed at the outset that it might be worth discussing this with that member . . . just shows ya how wrong one can be . . .