How can a good God allow suffering

@HabibUrrehman,

Thank you, that was very interesting.

My internet is very poor so I'll have to make this brief.
I agree with your assessment for the most part, I'll stick to the points where we differ.

In your conclusions you have described the correct procedure for training an animal not capable of understanding the true nature of the master. My reading of the scripture tells me that the master has called us to be sons, not obedient pets.

The key point is that yes, God did know they would eat of that tree BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM TO. But he wanted even that to be their choice. That is a choice you give to your children, not your pet.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Heh, and here, you compare people to rabid racoons that have to be put down, and worn out cars that have to be sent to the crusher in regard to their choices. The irony.

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@InfraBlue,

I stand by that analogy when in context. If with your free will you choose not to accept his offer of becoming a son, you are free to accept the alternative of death. Your choice.

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@izzythepush,

That's true. All religious books say that the day of judgement is around the corner. Quran says that on the day of Judgement we will be asked that for how long we lived on earth and people will say probably some portion of the morning or some portion of the evening. Quran also tells that Day of Judgement alone will be equal to 50,000 years. So take whatever life one have and if we divide that to 50,000, we will have life time which is not even worth mentioning. So in that sense one can say that Day of Judgement is always around the corner.

Prophet Muhammad PBUH has given some signs about end time. Many of the minor signs are met but none of the major sign has met so far. As far as when the Hour will come, many have asked this question in the past and Quran states that no one knows about the hour other than God himself.

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@HabibUrrehman,

The problem is people believe it and act accordingly. That's one of the reasons there's so much trouble in Syria right now.

There are people there who genuinely believe they're acting out the last days as per certain prophecies, but all they're doing is fighting another pointless war.

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@Leadfoot,

You are right. We are different than pets and animals because Allah has given us intellect and ability to analyze things. Those who don't reflect and follow something blindly or follow their own desires are no different than animals.

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@izzythepush,

Prophecy only predicts what will happen in future. Whether one believes in it or not, it will happen if it is true.

For example: Prophet Muhammad PBUH predicted that one of the minor sign for hour is that Arabs will get rich and will start competing in building tall buildings. Now look at this prophecy in historical context. Arabs were no body. They are ignorant and ill always fight on even small issues and use to live in tent or house made of mud. The roof of these houses was often made from palm leaves which will leak when it rained. But look at now, Arabs have started building tallest building in the world. Burj Al Khalifa is one of them.

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@HabibUrrehman,

The Ottoman Empire was pretty impressive too.

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@izzythepush,

I know, conquest of Istanbul was predicted even though it happened roughly eight centuries after the death of prophet Muhammad PBUH. Again it was something unthinkable at the time of prophet Muhammad PBUH that Arabs will one day defeat the Byzantine Empire.

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@HabibUrrehman,

The same things have been said about Nostradamus. I take all of this with a huge pinch of salt, either people only notice x was prophesised after the event or they claim y is about to happen and it never does.

What really troubles me is religious people deliberately despoiling the Earth because they think it will kickstart the Reckoning.

What if it doesn't, what if all of this is wrong, and you've all just fucked up the Earth for no good reason?

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@izzythepush,

The prophecies I am talking about have been written down centuries ago. As I said Istanbul was conquered more than 800 years after the prophecy was made by Prophet Muhammad PBUH. You can track those back and I know this has always been a issue when we mention them. That's why I try my best not to focus that much on that stuff. Its fine if you consider them fairy tale stories, this does not effect me in any way.

There are many prophecies which are still supposed to happen before the hour comes and I can state those but since these have not happened yet, those will be equally laughed at by non-believers. You can laugh today but what if this was right? We will see who will have the final laugh...

Quran says:

Quote:

Indeed, those who committed crimes used to laugh at those who believed.
And when they passed by them, they would exchange derisive glances.
And when they returned to their people, they would return jesting.
And when they saw them, they would say, "Indeed, those are truly lost."
But they had not been sent as guardians over them.
So Today those who believed are laughing at the disbelievers.
[Quran 83:29-34]

Death is a reality which no one denies even if they want to. That itself shows that there a higher power on us who can take the soul out of our bodies whenever He wants and no one can do anything. If someone thinks it is all fake then try to stop yourself from dying? You can't...

As Quran says:

Quote:

Then why, when the soul at death reaches the throat
And you are at that time looking on -
And Our angels are nearer to him than you, but you do not see -
Then why do you not, if you are not to be recompensed,
Bring it back, if you should be truthful?
[Quran 56-83-87]

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@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

I agree for most part. Just a correction that Quran tells Adam PBUH to stay away from a tree and did not say that He will die if He will eat from it.

I just googled it and the NIV reads as follows:

Quote:

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

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Second, I understand climate change and everything else but I believe that everything happens the way Allah has planned. Allah described in the Quran that when the hour will be near, the sea level will increase and it’s happening today. God also told that on day of judgement oceans will turn into fire and if we think, water is made of hydrogen ( highly explosive) and oxygen which helps the fire. Anyways, these are signs mentioned in the Quran for those who reflect.

Maybe the prophecy of judgment day is simply a description of what will happen when the world falls completely to sin and fails to change its ways. Judgment day may be something that can be shifted forward, even until the time the sun explodes and engulfs the Earth in several billion years; or we can bring it upon ourselves sooner by being incorrigible.

In Christianity, sin is not what earns us judgment but rather the failure to repent and accept the task to change for the better. As long as we repent and put sincere and earnest effort into reform, there is forgiveness and forebearance; but when we wholly reject the task of progressing toward a better future, how can we expect that God will prevent us from allowing us to bring upon ourselves the fruit of the seeds we are sowing?

We may end up saved in the end despite not being able to convert everyone to the righteous path, but how can we shirk the challenge of attempting reform when we are able to clearly see how to live in harmony with nature instead of wasting it for future generations?

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@livinglava,

I mentioned that Quran does not say, I know Bible says that Adam PBUH will certainly die if he eats from that tree.

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And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers." [Quran 7:19]

Livinglava wrote

Quote:

In Christianity, sin is not what earns us judgment but rather the failure to repent and accept the task to change for the better. As long as we repent and put sincere and earnest effort into reform, there is forgiveness and forbearance; but when we wholly reject the task of progressing toward a better future, how can we expect that God will prevent us from allowing us to bring upon ourselves the fruit of the seeds we are sowing?

This is what Muslims believe as well. The main difference is that We only believe in Jesus PBUH as a prophet and Messiah. We dont believe that Jesus PBUH died for our sins. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

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@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

I mentioned that Quran does not say, I know Bible says that Adam PBUH will certainly die if he eats from that tree.

Quote:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers." [Quran 7:19]

Oh, I see. Thank you for posting. It is also said that "the wages of sin are death," so 'wrongdoers' are 'sinners' and thus investing in their own deaths with their wrongdoing, no?

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This is what Muslims believe as well. The main difference is that We only believe in Jesus PBUH as a prophet and Messiah. We dont believe that Jesus PBUH died for our sins. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

I believe people reap what they sow, even after death in purgatory maybe. But I believe there is a difference between reaping what you have sown in a state of forgiveness/salvation/redemption and reaping it in a state where you reject forgiveness/salvation, deny sin, etc.

As Christians, we often remind each other that no amount of sacrifice we can make would be sufficient to atone for all sin. So we have to accept Jesus' sacrifice out of humility that no sacrifice we could make of ourselves would be sufficient to buy our salvation. This humbles us because we can't build up the prideful idea that we are going to be so great in our deeds to become completely clean in God's eyes.

In another sense, it is simply logical that you can't do enough good in the world to erase the bad that has been done by you and others before you. You just have to confess/repent sin to God and pray He helps you to do better in the future. The rest is in His hands. We as humans affect our future and what we leave behind for future generations, but our effect is ultimately just influence and there is a larger system that controls the outcome of all combined chains of cause-and-effect.

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@livinglava,

Quote:

Oh, I see. Thank you for posting. It is also said that "the wages of sin are death," so 'wrongdoers' are 'sinners' and thus investing in their own deaths with their wrongdoing, no?

You are quoting Romans 6:23.

Everyone who comes in this world has to die and everyone of us will sin. But that's for this world. It is important that before we die, we seek forgiveness from our creator and sincerely try to stay on the path He has told us to follow. Life in hereafter will be eternal for everyone. Some will be in paradise because they repented. Others will be in hell fire because they never repented and either never believed in God or worshiped wrong God. In either case our life in hereafter is eternal, there will be no death. Those in hell fire would wish to die but they will not.

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As Christians, we often remind each other that no amount of sacrifice we can make would be sufficient to atone for all sin. So we have to accept Jesus' sacrifice out of humility that no sacrifice we could make of ourselves would be sufficient to buy our salvation. This humbles us because we can't build up the prideful idea that we are going to be so great in our deeds to become completely clean in God's eyes.

Blood atonement compromises God's Justice, Love and Mercy. God is Just and never punishes anyone for sins of others. God is merciful and if one repents He can forgive them, I don't understand why it is so hard to understand.

Lets also look if this concept of blood atonement has a foundation in Bible:

The foundation of the crucifixion stands on the doctrine that blood sacrifice alone expiates sin and reconciles man with God. At face value, the notion of Jesus sacrificing himself to redeem mankind may appear to be a noble act and undoubtedly is an aspect of Christianity that resonates deeply with its followers. But is it Biblical?

When we look at the Old Testament, we find that the notion that only unblemished sacrificial blood can appease God’s wrath and atone for sin is explicitly denounced by the prophets of Israel.

One such example is King Solomon. While dedicating the Temple of Jerusalem to God Almighty, Solomon makes a special plea on behalf of the Israelites:

Quote:

When they sin against You—for there is no one who does not sin… and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their enemies who took them captive, and pray to you toward the land you gave their ancestors, toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name; then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you; forgive all the offenses they have committed against you, and cause their captors to show them mercy. [1 Kings 8:46-50]

This entire passage seems to have foreshadowed the exile of the Israelites into Babylonian captivity which took place in the 6th century BCE. The words of Solomon represent a total refutation of the Christian theology of God’s forgiveness being contingent on blood atonement – the exiled Israelites would be able to attain forgiveness through repentance and prayer.

If we fast forward to the time of Prophet Ezekiel, we will find the Israelites living in exile in Babylon after the destruction of Jerusalem, just as foreshadowed by Solomon. The entire chapter of Ezekiel 18 is devoted to sin and atonement.

The Jewish people, perhaps under the influence of Babylonian pagan practices and beliefs, had the misapprehension that God punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty. They ask Ezekiel:

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“Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?” [Ezekiel 18:19].

This idea that an innocent can die as atonement for the sins of the wicked was widely known throughout the world as a practice among pagan communities. Prophet Ezekiel’s response to his people is a clear rejection of such beliefs:

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But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offences they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? Declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? [Ezekiel 18:21-23]

So, we can see that God is pleased when the guilty stop sinning and make sincere repentance. Much like God’s nature being purely One and not a Trinity, the Old Testament concept of a loving and merciful God agrees with Islam; it’s Christian theology that is the odd one out.

Furthermore, in the Old Testament God’s love and mercy is not just restricted to the Jewish people; even Gentiles (non-Jews) were freely forgiven by God through sincere repentance. For example, the Old Testament describes the people of Nineveh as a wicked nation. God sent Prophet Jonah to warn them:

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“The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: ‘Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me’” [Jonah 1:1-2].

This was a nation of considerable size, numbering over 120,000 inhabitants:

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And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals? [Jonah 4:11]

This entire nation was spared God’s punishment in the end because they repented from their wicked ways:

Quote:

When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh: “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.” When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. [Jonah 3:6-10]

An entire nation of over 120,000 condemned to destruction were forgiven by God when they simply repented and fasted, without ever offering any sacrifice. In fact, even though they had many animals at their disposal, which God could have easily commanded them to sacrifice, they weren’t sacrificed, but rather the animals were made to fast along with the people. From these examples we can see that the Christian theology that only unblemished sacrificial blood can appease God’s wrath and atone for sin has no foundation in the Bible.

Jesus PBUH taught others to seek Forgiveness:

During the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus makes some interesting statements with regard to the forgiveness of sin:

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This, then, is how you should pray: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. [Matthew 6:9-15]

So, according to this prayer that Jesus taught, we are to ask God to “forgive us” our debts as “we also forgive our debtors.” We are to forgive others their sins if we are to see God forgive our sins. If we take Jesus’ analogy of debt and apply it to the theology of the cross, it is highly problematic. If someone owes you money and you wanted to “forgive this debt”, that would mean that you would forgo the money owed to you by writing the debt off. If, however, someone owes you money and then you tell them you don’t have to pay it anymore on the condition that someone else pays it on their behalf, can it be said that you have forgiven the debt? It cannot, because the burden of settling the debt has just been transferred onto someone else. True forgiveness is the virtuous act of letting go of a wrong without exacting any form of payment or punishment in return. But the theology of the cross teaches that Jesus bore the punishment of sinners on the cross in order to fully pay off the debt of our sins.

In another incident, we see an example where Jesus informs a person that their sins have been forgiven on account of their repentance:

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Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way. When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly. All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.” But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” [Luke 19:1-10]

Notice that the man’s virtuous act of repentance resulted in him being forgiven and receiving salvation that very day – not at a later date as a result of Jesus’s death on the cross.

We can see from these examples that, much like when it comes to the nature of God, Jesus had an Old Testament understanding of atonement; he taught others to seek God’s forgiveness.

To Conclude:

Islamic theology paints a picture of God that is loving and merciful. No sin is too great to be forgiven; the doors of mercy are never shut. All we have to do is turn to God in repentance with a sincere heart and our sins will be washed away. A Muslim never despairs of the love and mercy of God. Such a positive outlook on the nature of God in turn instils in us a deeper and further love for God.

By comparison, Christian theology claims that without the cross, without the innocent blood of Jesus being spilt, mankind is cut off from God’s forgiveness. These claims bear a striking resemblance to the pagan blood sacrifices of old. In fact, there have been all kinds of pagan deities throughout history who needed the blood of an innocent human to appease them. If one believes that God’s wrath at sin necessitated the blood sacrifice of Jesus in order to calm His wrath, we are not describing a god who is fundamentally different – we are simply describing another version of an angry god who needs an innocent thrown into the volcano.

We can see that when we look at the teachings of the Old Testament, the claim that God’s forgiveness is contingent on the shedding of blood is an alien concept with no basis in Scripture. Likewise, Jesus taught others to seek God’s forgiveness, not by blood sacrifice, but by asking for it. Christianity changed this message of Jesus: the one who sought God’s forgiveness and taught others to do the same became the object of forgiveness on the cross. This has big implications on the crucifixion itself, as blood atonement is the foundation upon which it stands.

2 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Everyone who comes in this world has to die and everyone of us will sin. But that's for this world. It is important that before we die, we seek forgiveness from our creator and sincerely try to stay on the path He has told us to follow. Life in hereafter will be eternal for everyone. Some will be in paradise because they repented. Others will be in hell fire because they never repented and either never believed in God or worshiped wrong God. In either case our life in hereafter is eternal, there will be no death. Those in hell fire would wish to die but they will not.

Well put, but I may be more optimistic in that I believe people continue to have the chance to repent in the hereafter. Of course, it is better to repent as soon as possible because the longer you put it off, the longer it takes before you can reach the point of becoming aware of the opportunity for salvation, but I think everyone eventually reaches a point of seeking salvation, no matter how much suffering they have to go through before reaching that point.

Quote:

Blood atonement compromises God's Justice, Love and Mercy. God is Just and never punishes anyone for sins of others. God is merciful and if one repents He can forgive them, I don't understand why it is so hard to understand.

I found this Catholic explanation online:

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All sinners were the authors of Christ's Passion

598 In her Magisterial teaching of the faith and in the witness of her saints, the Church has never forgotten that "sinners were the authors and the ministers of all the sufferings that the divine Redeemer endured."389 Taking into account the fact that our sins affect Christ himself,390 the Church does not hesitate to impute to Christians the gravest responsibility for the torments inflicted upon Jesus, a responsibility with which they have all too often burdened the Jews alone:

We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt. And it can be seen that our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews. As for them, according to the witness of the Apostle, "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." We, however, profess to know him. And when we deny him by our deeds, we in some way seem to lay violent hands on him.391

Nor did demons crucify him; it is you who have crucified him and crucify him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.392

And of course we know what Jesus said of His persecutors:

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Luke 23:24
The Crucifixion
…33When they came to the place called The Skull, they crucified Him there, along with the criminals, one on His right and the other on His left. 34Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up His garments by casting lots. 35The people stood watching, and the rulers sneered at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.”…

So, indeed, Jesus forgave even His own sacrifice at the hands of sinners.

His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascent are honored by the crucifix as a symbol of the forgiveness and eternal life he taught about.

Many people fear and reject the Christian symbol of the crucifix and the idea that we can have salvation from sin and eternal life by following Jesus, but I think that is just foolish pride, just as I think it is foolish pride to dismiss Islam and Mohammed PBUH because of some prejudices about Muslims spread through the media and populist/racist culture.

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@HabibUrrehman,

Quote:

Blood atonement compromises God's Justice, Love and Mercy. God is Just and never punishes anyone for sins of others. God is merciful and if one repents He can forgive them, I don't understand why it is so hard to understand.

I am in agreement here, I have never understood where the significance of 'blood' came from in Christianity. It's just silly.

OTOH, the description of hell you gave is equally silly.
Where is your reverence for justice in that?

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

I am in agreement here, I have never understood where the significance of 'blood' came from in Christianity. It's just silly.

It's from the Last Supper.

Quote:

OTOH, the description of hell you gave is equally silly.
Where is your reverence for justice in that?

How is suffering caused? Is it impossible, iyo, for suffering to continue to grow until it can no longer be transcended?

If you can imagine a state of being in which there is eternal suffering without deliverance, then you believe in hell.

If not, please explain your views.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

OTOH, the description of hell you gave is equally silly.
Where is your reverence for justice in that?

Quran says the Allah will be Just and on the day of Judgement, people will get only what they have earned with their actions in this life.

Quote:

So today no soul will be wronged at all, and you will not be recompensed except for what you used to do. [Quran 36:54]

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So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it,
And whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it.
[Quran 99:7-8]

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And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one.[Quran 18:49]

It would be unjust if Allah would not tell us anything about hell fire and paradise. It is Allah's Justice and Mercy that He has described both heaven and hell in such great details in Quran. If we still reject God after hearing/reading all the warnings then there is no one who is to be blamed but us because we read these signs and still choose to reject them.
Quran also says that we will be witness for our own actions:

Quote:

[Then He will say], "But stand apart today, you criminals.
Did I not enjoin upon you, O children of Adam, that you not worship Satan - [for] indeed, he is to you a clear enemy -
And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path.
And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason?
This is the Hellfire which you were promised.
[Enter to] burn therein today for what you used to deny."
That Day, We will seal over their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their feet will testify about what they used to earn. [Quran 36:61-65]

Quran says that remind people by mentioning the verses from Quran because these are reminders for those who are truly searching for truth. People who are wretched will reject these signs because they don't believe in unseen and preferred this world over hereafter:

Quote:

So remind, if the reminder should benefit;
He who fears [ Allah ] will be reminded.
But the wretched one will avoid it -
[He] who will [enter and] burn in the greatest Fire,
Neither dying therein nor living.
He has certainly succeeded who purifies himself
And mentions the name of his Lord and prays.
But you prefer the worldly life,
While the Hereafter is better and more enduring.
Indeed, this is in the former scriptures,
The scriptures of Abraham and Moses.

Eternal life in hell fire may sound unjust but one needs to realize that they earned this with their own hands by rejecting all the warnings and countless blessings we were given by our Creator. They followed their own evil desires and Devil and will abode in hell fire with those whom they followed. If they would have asked Allah for help, Allah would surely have helped them but they never believed in meeting with their Lord and ignored His signs so on the Day of Judgement Allah will ignore them as well. Quran says:

Quote:

So taste [punishment] because you forgot the meeting of this, your Day; indeed, We have [accordingly] forgotten you. And taste the punishment of eternity for what you used to do. [Quran 32:14]

My advice is that take these signs seriously. This is the only chance we got my brother and we need to make the best out of it. Allah is very Merciful and He forgives all sins if one repents and try to follow the guidance He gave us to succeed for the rest of our lives. Quran says:

Quote:

Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful. [39:53]

1 Reply

@HabibUrrehman,

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"OTOH, the description of hell you gave is equally silly.
Where is your reverence for justice in that?"

Quran says the Allah will be Just and on the day of Judgement, people will get only what they have earned with their actions in this life.

I was not asking what the Quran said, I asked about YOUR sense of justice.
If you are to pose your Hell as justice, you then have to spell out two things.
1. What sin is deserving of it?
2. What is Allah's minimum requirement for avoiding Hell?

If you don't have these answers. you have no sense of justice personally, just dead scriptures.

1 Reply

How can a good God allow suffering

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