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How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 05:32 am
@Endeavor to know God,
Quote:
Satan said, "Do You see this one whom You have honored above me? If You delay me until the Day of Resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few."

That bit of the Koran is pretty close to what the the Bible says, But the Bible has it that Satan says 'not a single one' will follow God. He seems to be saying that there is no legitimacy to God's POV and no sentient being would see any lasting value in it.

In contrast, God seems to be saying that he wishes the yield was 100% but he knows it will be 'just a few'. The timeline according to God says that Satan will be detained on the day of resurrection rather than delayed until then. ' Now' is the time Satan is free to do what he can, not on the day of resurrection. Then after the predicted 1000 years (millennial reign of Christ) on earth, THEN Satan is again released, according to Revelations. Happily, Satan ultimately fails, because even 'a few' that get it, is better than 'not a one'.

What amazes me is that even after 1000 years of being with the Son of God, a large number will still be deceived when Satan is unchained again. God (and Satan) is clearly a hard ass. The question is, is that a bad thing or should God just 'take it easy' on us instead.

My guess is that Satan speaks a brand of truth, but often twists the facts around to suit his goal of 100% ownership of man. He’s pretty good at this game.
Anyway, that’s how the book reads to me. I’m not as well versed on the Koran so I assume you interpreted it correctly.
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NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 06:19 pm
God has no obligation to His creation. Why should He?
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 08:19 pm
@NealNealNeal,
A creation (known by the eponym Neal who thinks that the earth was created a few thousand years ago) has no obligation to the imaginary being that he thinks created him, why should he?
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BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2020 04:40 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

God has no obligation to His creation. Why should He?


An human parents have no obligations to their children at any age of the children. By that thinking not only is Abortions fine with god but also killing your children at whim.

Once more in human terms such a god would be pure evil.

NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2020 06:44 pm
@BillRM,
Because of Original Sin any obligation that God had to people vanished.
God did make both conditional and unconditional promises to the Jewish people.
Finally, as amazing as it is, Jesus came down to earth, died for our sins, and was resurrected so that we could have a personal relationship with God. He is our Father if we accept the gift that Jesus gave us
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 05:03 pm
@NealNealNeal,
An you know all this by some make up texts placed in the bible by vote at the Council of Nicene an later the Council of Trent where other similar texts was either destroy or hidden in caves by the dead sea.

NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 05:58 pm
@BillRM,
The Holy Spirit has confirmed this truth to my spirit.
By the way, I don't believe that the earth MUST be young. The Bible does not say that God created the world several thousand years ago. I can't find anything in the Bible that says how old it is.
As you know, people make mistakes. This is true of both atheists and religious people.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 06:09 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

The Holy Spirit has confirmed this truth to my spirit.
By the way, I don't believe that the earth MUST be young. The Bible does not say that God created the world several thousand years ago. I can't find anything in the Bible that says how old it is.
As you know, people make mistakes. This is true of both atheists and religious people.


Errors like being off a few billions years??????????Or that PI value is three and not 3.14159......and so on?
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2020 06:55 pm
@BillRM,
My understanding is that some Christians take the Bible verse that says "a day is like 1000 years.....to God". So they multiply 6 or 7 days my 1000 to get how long the earth has been in existence. Also, a priest long ago tried to calculate how old the world was
Jesus warned His disciples not to calculate when He is coming back Perhaps it is not for Christians to calculate when the world started.
I don't know enough science to have a firm grasp on Origins. I will leave it up to Scientists with Phd's to hash it out. I truly doubt that even they know. So I remain an agnotic on the details of Origins.
The Bible gives a summary of Creation and then a bit more detailed account. Scientists would want a lot more details than we're provided.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2020 11:49 am
Bill----What has happened is that the religion of secularism has been promoted in our schools. There is no other means of thought being taught. Therefore, our students are not being fully educated.
Now, when our pure sciences are taught concerning the world as it is TODAY
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2020 12:16 pm
@NealNealNeal,
there is no bias.However, the Theory of Evolution is affected by biases. The social sciences are greatly affected by biases. One result is that people pretend that there are multiple "genders" that a person can be. This is absolutely silly scientifically. However, once again they use a form of DOUBLE TALK to insist that they are correct.
Christian parents now face a dilemma. Yes, the teaching of the New Testament can deal quite well with this. However, they want their children to learn Judeo Christian principles of morality. Since public schools no longer provide it, parents often choose other forms of education.
Orthodox Judaism is also affected. One main concern is "assimilation" of American Jews. Yes, America has been wonderful to the Jews However, warning against assimilation is common in American Orthodox Jewish temples.
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G0disg00d
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2020 07:29 pm
@SawyerMentink,
God is to be seen as a father figure - many times in the bible he is displayed as so. As well as this, he is a God of justice. David is the first son of God, and does wrong by sending a man to die in war in order to sleep with his wife - as a consequence, God allows their love child to die. David obviously suffered, but it was justified. His suffering was punishment and showed God's angry towards his sin as well as his justice towards the sin. We may not understand, but God is a just God. Same way our parents punish us when we do something wrong in order to prepare us for life, God's punishment is much greater as he is preparing for our eternal life, because as you could imagine, David didn't do anything like that again.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 11:48 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Bill----What has happened is that the religion of secularism has been promoted in our schools. There is no other means of thought being taught. Therefore, our students are not being fully educated.
Now, when our pure sciences are taught concerning the world as it is TODAY


So to be fully educated you would need to promote not just cover every religion dream on by mankind?

Would kind of confusing to the children unless you think the way to go would be to indoctrinated the children in one religion out of all the religions possible.
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 12:47 pm
@BillRM,
Teach Judeo-Christian principles. There is a great deal of diversity there.
The teaching of democracy will compliment Judeo-Christian principles quite nicely.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 05:49 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Teach Judeo-Christian principles. There is a great deal of diversity there.
The teaching of democracy will compliment Judeo-Christian principles quite nicely.



You got to be kidding me as untold tens of millions have been killed in the name of Judeo-christian principles over the centuries.

Such principles have nothing to do with a free and open society.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 12:02 pm
@BillRM,
Most of the Hebrew Bible deals with a people under a Theocracy.
The New Testament deals with how individuals should live under a rather harsh government.
Since we live in a Democracy, we engage in apologetics on how we should act. We engage in the process of trying to convince each other about our beliefs.
You and I disagree on certain moral values. In a democratic republic, that is acceptable.
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