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How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 06:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
God knew thier hearts. Life is about free will and choices. Learning and understanding. Love and sacrifice. But most of all life has a purpose.

How do you know it was bigotted? You weren't there. God knows every man better than you know yourself. (If you were there I am assuming you would have been with Noah because you seem to want to be good) But, God is good and guarantees that every good man will be in heaven forever. I am assuming you are one of them whether you believe in God or heaven or nothing because I am assuming you have a good heart and you are choosing to love God and do His will to the best of your understanding.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:26 am
There are a number of reasons why God allows hardship and adversity to befall people. Even the genuine believers experience hardship and adversity at some stage in their lives in accordance with God's wisdom and Grand Plan.

1- It is God's design to subject people to various tests entailing hardship and adversity so as to test their faith, their resolve and their trust in God:

Do the people think that they would be left to say, "We believe", without them being tested? (Quran 29:2)
We have tested those before them, so that God would know the truthful ones and He would know the liars. (Quran 29:3)

also:

We will surely test you through some fear, hunger and shortage of money, lives and crops, so give the news to the patient ones. (Quran 2:155)

To pass the test, the believer must maintain his belief that only God can relieve his hardship. The believer will always maintain his prayer and call unto God:

Who is the One who responds to the one in need when he calls upon Him, removes the adversity and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a god with God? Rarely do you take heed. (Quran 27:62)

2- Hardship and adversity is also decreed by God as a cleansing of our souls for sins we have already committed. As a result, some of the bad things that happen to us are a direct result of sins we have committed:

Whatever disaster strikes you is but a consequence of what your own hands have earned. Still, He pardons quite a lot. (Quran 42:30)

It can also be said that God, being the Most Just, would not punish us twice for the same sin. This means that the punishment we are given cleanses us and no further punishment is due.

The concept of cleansing the human from sins in this life is a Quranic truth. It can be achieved through the experiencing of hardship and adversity (as 42:30).
It can also be achieved through the giving of 'sadaqa' (charity) for the specific reason of cleansing the soul from sins which have been committed:

Take a 'sadaqa' (charity) from their money to cleanse and purify them with it and support them. Your support provides them with tranquillity. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable. (Quran 9:103)

3- Suffering through hardship and adversity is also a reminder for people who tend to take things for granted and forget all of God's blessings. Despite all the blessings given to the human by God, the human being is unappreciative. A little reminder in the shape of hardship or adversity may hopefully remind the human not to take God's blessings for granted:

If you count God's blessings, you can never encompass them. The human being is indeed transgressing, unappreciative. (Quran 14:34)
If We grant the human being a blessing he turns away and distances himself, yet when adversity touches him he implores profusely. (Quran 41:51)

4- Adversity and hardship is also a very effective reminder for those who are too much absorbed in this worldly life; thus they may not be as devoted to God as they should be. Due to their being too preoccupied with this worldly life they do not seek God nor call on God as they should:

He is the One who enables you to travel in the land and sea. When some among you were on board a ship that carried them through a pleasant wind, with which they were pleased, they were stricken by a stormy wind and waves that hit them from all directions. They realised that they were totally surrounded and so they implored God devoting their prayers to Him alone: "If You save us from this, we will be thankful." (Quran 10:22)

But then, when He saved them, they go transgressing in the land unjustly. O people, your transgression only falls back on your own selves. An enjoyment of the worldly life, then to Us is your ultimate return. We will then inform you of what you had done. (Quran 10:23)

5- Many people are either oblivious of, or need to be reminded, of God’s absolute authority. Hardship and adversity are one way to remind them that no one can save them but God, and also remind them of God's absolute authority. Some people need to be reminded that they need God every minute of their lives. Sadly, when God relieves adversity, many people return to idol worship once again:

O people, you are the ones who are in dire need of God, while God is the Rich and Praiseworthy One. (Quran 35:15)

If the human is touched by any harm he calls on Us, then if We bestow a blessing upon him, he says, "I have been given this because of my knowledge!" Rather, this is a test, but most of them do not know. ( Quran 39:49)

And if adversity touches the human being, he implores Us on his side, sitting down or standing up. Then, when We relieve his adversity, he carries on as if he never implored Us about a hardship which had touched him! The works of the transgressors are thus adorned for them. ( Quran 10:12)

When any harm touches the human being he implores his Lord in a state of sincere devotion to Him, but then if He grants him a blessing from Him, he forgets what he was calling for before and sets up equals to God so as to divert others from His path. Say, "Enjoy your disbelief for a little while for you are indeed among the companions of the fire." (Quran 39:8)

If harm afflicts the people, they call upon their Lord in total devotion, but then, if He allows them a taste of mercy from Him, some of them revert to associating partners with their Lord. (Quran 30:33)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:32 am
@HabibUrrehman,
There are no gods. They are the creation of men. That's the reason there are thousands of gods in this world. The only "god" us humans have is Nature. It controls our life on this planet; it's about the availability of water, oxygen, and food, and our ability to procreate - like all animals. Humans have evolved into what we are today based on our brain size and hands. Humans on this planet are the only animals that has the power to destroy this planet, and we're doing a yeoman's job at it. We created atomic and hydrogen bombs. We're now destroying our atmosphere and fresh water resources. It's just a matter of time.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
Its funny that you don't believe in God and yet called nature your God.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:25 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Do you know what "rhetorical" means?
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
That an excellent rhetorical question to get away from answering a simple question. I will keep my focus on your main question which is whether God exists or not, using some of your own arguments to prove God exists and back that up with Quran. Hope you have a good heart and mind to accept things presents with logic.

From the moment man opens his eyes to this world a great order surrounds him.  He needs oxygen to survive; it is interesting that the atmosphere of the planet on which he lives provides more than just the adequate amount of oxygen he needs.  This way, he breathes without difficulty.  For the existence of life on this planet, the existence of a source of heat is essential.  In response to this need, the sun is located at just the right distance to emit the exact amount of heat and energy human life needs.  Man needs nourishment to survive; every corner of the world abounds in astonishingly diversified provisions.  Likewise, man needs water; surprisingly, three-fourths of the planet is covered with water.  Man needs shelter; in this world of ours, there is land on which it is suitable to build and all sorts of materials with which to make shelters.

These are only a few among billions of details making life possible on earth.  In brief, man lives on a planet perfectly designed for his survival.  This is certainly a planet “created for human beings”, as God said in the Quran:

“Do you not see that God has subjected for you all that is in the Heavens and all that is on the Earth, and has completed and perfected His Bounties upon you, [both] apparent and hidden?...” (Quran 31:20)

A person’s interpretation of the world rests on “acquired methods of thought.” That is, he thinks in the way he has been taught, or, less kindly, the way in which he is indoctrinated.  Under this misguidance, he often dismisses all the aforementioned as “trivial realities.” However, if he does not side-step the matter, and start questioning the conditions making our existence possible, he will surely step out of the boundaries of habitual thinking and start to think:

How does the atmosphere serve as a protective ceiling for the earth?
How does each one of the billions of cells in the human body know and perform its individual tasks?
How does this extraordinary ecological balance exist on earth?

A person seeking answers to these questions surely proceeds on the right path.  He does not remain insensitive to things happening around him, and doesn’t plead ignorance about the extraordinary nature of the world.  A person who asks questions, who reflects on and gives answers to these questions will realize that, on every inch of the planet, a plan and an order reigns:

How did the flawless order in the whole universe come into being?
Who provided the delicate balances in the world?
How did living beings, incredibly diversified in nature, emerge?
Keeping oneself occupied with relentless research to answer these questions results in a clear awareness that everything in the universe, its order, each living being and structure is a component of a plan, a product of design.  Every detail: the excellent structure of an insect’s wing, the system enabling a tree to carry tons of water to its topmost branches, the order of planets, and the ratio of gases in the atmosphere; all are unique examples of perfection.

In every detail of the infinitely varied world, man finds his Creator.  God, the owner of everything in the whole universe, introduces Himself to man through the flawless design of His creation.  Everything surrounding us, the birds in flight, our beating hearts, the birth of a child or the existence of the sun in the sky, manifest the power of God and His creation.  And what man must do is understand this fact.

These purposes owe their existence to the fact that everything has been created.  An intelligent person notices that planning, design and wisdom exist in every detail of the infinitely varied world.  This draws him to recognition of the Creator.

So you need never plead ignorance that all living beings, living or non-living, show the existence and greatness of God, look at the things around you.  Strive to show appreciation in the best manner for the eternal greatness of God.  

For the existence of God is obvious, and ignoring it would only be the beginning of the greatest damage we could ever do to ourselves.  That is simply because God is in no need of anything.  He is the One Who shows His greatness in all things and in all ways.
God is the owner of everything, from the heavens to the earth.  We learn the attributes of God from the Quran:

“God!  There is no god but Him, the Living, the Self-Sufficient.  He is not subject to drowsiness or sleep.  Everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him.  Who can intercede with Him except by His permission?  He knows what is before them and what is behind them but they cannot grasp any of His knowledge save what He wills.  His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth and their preservation does not tire Him.  He is the Most High, the Magnificent.” (Quran 2:255)

If you only watch how a human baby develops, you will have no doubt in accepting that there is a creator. If you still doubt, try to create human eye or even human hair? That's how helpless you and I are, created from sperm and now standing up against God to tell Him that we are created by an accident and have no purpose in our life?

Or try to bring back soul when human dies? I know soul is unseen and people like you most likely are going to say that what is the proof that soul exists? But they forget that there are so many people who die on daily basis and one day you will be one of them. A split second before your death, you will be alive. After death you will have same body but it will be called dead because your soul has left your body.

On daily basis day comes and night cover up the day. On daily basis we see water gives life to dead earth. But these are signs for those who reflect.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 12:33 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
That's the reasoning for an SOB god, not a good god.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 12:40 pm
@InfraBlue,
You probably did not read my entire post and jumped to conclusions. Even Prophets were tested by God. That is the whole purpose of this life. Do you think God will not test your faith and you will enter paradise just by verbally saying "I believe in God."

Anyways I described that in length in my post and gave several reasons. I hope you have read all those reason and after that if you want to disagree that is fine. We can agree to disagree respectfully.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 01:03 pm
@InfraBlue,
I do beg to differ, testing is an SOB behavior that doesn't jibe with love.

HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 01:05 pm
@InfraBlue,
If that's your conclusion, we can respectfully agree to disagree.

I will be interested to see your reasoning for suffering in this life?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 01:14 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:

If that's your conclusion, we can respectfully agree to disagree.

I will be interested to see your reasoning for suffering in this life?


**** happens. Much of it is beyond our control.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 01:29 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
man lives on a planet perfectly designed for his survival.

That may be because man is well adapted to his planet, as a result of a long evolutionary process.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 01:59 pm
@Olivier5,
Why is life not possible on any other planet? Why don't humans go and live on other planets?

Human being who can't survive in mother's womb at his/her own is claiming that all of this is due to evolution? Human being who fights between life and death when he/she is about to be born, claims to be survive because of evolutionary process? Man who is so helpless when is born to rely on others to survive claims to survive at his own?

We can't produce a single human hair if all humans get together with all knowledge we have. That's why I said that some time, these tests are reminder to show us the blessings we take as granted. Just imagine, hurting your backbone and never be able to move again.....

Anyways it is a matter of faith and your connection with your creator. Some people are blessed to look around and appreciate their creator, others forget that they were nothing but a sperm and start arguing to prove that all what they have in this world is because of their intellect and hard work. These are the people who don't want to be accountable for what they do in this life and hence look for excuses to deny the existence of God and life in hereafter. They forget that their creator knows what is in their heart and is all watching over everything they do. They forget that there were people more stronger and more intelligent compared to them and they have faced death just like we will all face the death.

Death around us is a continuous reminder that life has a purpose and it ends with death. For some this sign alone is enough but for other all signs are nothing because their heart are dead already and have lost connection with consciousness and their creator.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 02:12 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
You don't know for a fact that earth is the only planet with life in the entire universe.

Why did your god create such vast expanses of space, these billions of billions of galaxies and stars, if it was to leave them empty and dead?

There's life out there, I reckon. We just haven't found it yet, or it hasn't found us.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 02:19 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
And you know, if "human being who can't survive in mother's womb at his/her own" can't claim anything, then YOU can't claim anything. You came out of a woman's womb too, didn't you?

So take it easy with what I can claim, okay? If Allah does exist, He made me who I am, with the claims I have.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 03:25 pm
@Olivier5,
There are many who don't survive in woman's womb and that again is part of the test. Again it will be an in depth religious debate which is not related to our current topic. So let's leave that for some future discussion.

Allah has given you free will and have also given us the ability to choose between right and wrong. I am not responsible for the choices you will make so I care less about what you think in that regard. As a human being, however, I do want all of us to be guided and be saved and hence the reason we are debating with respect.

What are your view about God by the way? I just want to know so that I can formulate my response accordingly to answer the question you have.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 03:33 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
My view on god(s) is that I don't really know how many there are: 0, 1, 2 or many more, but if they (he) exist(s) I'd love to meet with them/he. I have many thanks to give them, zillions of questions, and a few pointed critiques as well.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 03:37 pm
@Olivier5,
Another view is that, since I don't think anybody really knows how many gods there are, 0, 1, 2 or many more, I find it quite absurd to kill in their name.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 04:07 pm
@Olivier5,
The claim that there is more than one god is logically invalid and I will attempt to prove my point by refuting the claim that there is more than one god.

When we assume that there are two equal gods in the universe, it is definite that there will be discussions between them and conflicts between their wishes. In the end of such a conflict, for instance, when one god wanted something to happen and the other wanted it not to happen, one of the following three possibilities would happen.

1. Both of the gods’ wishes would take place.

2. Neither of the gods’ wishes would take place.

3. One of the gods’ wish would take place and the other’s wish would not.

All of those possibilities are rationally invalid and impossible.

If the wishes of both of them took place, a state in which something would happen and would not happen at the same time would take place, that is, two opposites like existence and non-existence would come together, which is logically impossible.

If neither of the gods’ wishes would take place, it would mean something would be deprived of existence and non-existence, that is, the opposites would disappear, which is also rationally and logically impossible.

In addition, the gods would suffer weakness when their wishes were not realized. Weak beings cannot be divine beings; they cannot create anything.

In the third possibility, the wish of one of the gods would take place and the other would be prevented; then the god whose wish did not take place would become weak. A weak being cannot be a god.

Moreover, I mentioned that the gods would be equal; when one of them turned out to be weak, the other would be weak too because they were equal. Then, both of them would be weak. Weak beings cannot be gods.

Thus, all of the possibilities turned out to be invalid; and the theory that there are two or more gods is proved to be invalid spontaneously.

Then, the divine being that created the world is one. And that being is Allah, the Exalted, who has absolute perfection, power and greatness as a necessity of the existence of His pre-eternal and post-eternal personality.

There is other evidence that proves the belief of oneness. Let me mention some of them that we regard as important: 

Evidence that “His sovereignty does not accept any partners:

The most important and indispensable law of the truth of sovereignty is independence and freedom. That is, rejection of others’ intervention and partnership in sovereignty.

It is obvious that even weak men who have a slight shadow or part of sovereignty reject the outer interventions in order to protect their independence and they act aggressively when others interfere in their business. In history, kings who were full of love and compassion killed their innocent children and beloved brothers lest they should intervene in their sovereignty. It clearly shows that the truth that no intervention is in question in sovereignty is dominant so absolutely and essentially.  

Since the shadow of the feeling of sovereignty in weak and needy men rejects intervention so much and does not accept partnership in their sovereignty and try to protect their independence by all means, it will be understood that God Almighty, ‘who has absolute sovereignty in the form of being the Lord of the worlds, absolute dominance in the form of divinity and absolute independence in the form of oneness’ is free from having a partner, counterpart and rival. 

Therefore, independence and uniqueness is an indispensable principle of the absolute sovereignty of Allah. 

Evidence of order:

The perfect order and unerring system seen in the beings on the earth from atoms to stars in individuals and in all of them is the greatest proof and the brightest evidence of oneness. If anybody other than the Maker intervened in the divine activities and creation in the universe, that highly delicate order and balance would be spoiled and the marks of disorder would be seen everywhere. 

Evidence of “ease at oneness and difficulty in plenitude:

If the creation of things is attributed to only one Maker and Creator, it will be easy like the creation of one thing. If it is attributed to the nature, a fly will be as difficult as the skies, a flower as difficult as a spring and a fruit as difficult as an orchard. Since an eternal ease is seen in the creation of things in the universe, it is understood that the Creator is one and single...

from our life experience, imagine you are working for two, three or more bosses? or imagine there are several head of household? Can you imagine a chaos in these situations and now take that to much bigger scale which is the universe. How can it be possible to have multiple gods and yet to find complete harmony and peace in the design and functions of everything in the universe. I would be surprised if you still think that there are multiple gods...

Once we agree that God is only one, we can go into discuss who that God is?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jun, 2019 05:31 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
The religion never did come into existence. The core belief of Islam is the worship of Allah ( Derived from Al meaning The and Ilah meaning God, so literally meaning The God, it should be noted the word Allah was used pre Muhammad by Arabic Christians and is still used by African and Arabian Christians)
Since man have roamed this planet for over 200,000 years, Islam had to "come into existence" at some period in human history. Also, we humans evolved from primates. That's the finding of science and anthropologists. Many religions were created around the world. The christian religion evolved from Greek and Egyptian mythology.
Quote:
Does Islam believe in the Virgin Birth? | Interfaith forums
www.interfaith.org/community/threads/8638
Does Islam believe in the Virgin Birth Of Jesus? If so, did Mary contributed half of the genetic makeup in Jesus' DNA? And if that's the case, who's genetic code was the other half? Or even if Allah created Jesus wholly in Mary's womb, without the contribution of Mary's genetic code, who was Jesus' genetic code modeled from?
 

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