51
   

How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2018 03:10 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Permanence is a myth. All is in flux. The word refers to the expectation of repetition of observer-observed states. Permanence equates to continued functionality relative to our lifespans.


Most of the atoms in the universe have been around for millions to billions of years. If you would like we could replace "permanence of the information stored in atoms" to "information that changes so little over time we can take it out of the discussion most of the time" if it makes it easier for you to accept.

Quote:
Observer and observed are inextricable.


For discussion's sake we as observers cannot be viewed as permanent but the information stored in atoms can be viewed as permanent.

Quote:
'Existence' is another word related to the expectancy of mutual observer-observed states which naive realists cannot understand because they axiomatically think there is 'a world' independent of observers.


As a naive realist and idealist myself, I subscribe to all the interpretations of physics and believe there is a paradigm that combines all into a coherent explanation.

So, when it comes to permanence we must use the many worlds interpretation of physics. Therefore I believe every quark or electron is a permanent universe, that is contained inside the universes we call atoms(which are held together by the strong nuclear force which is fairly permanent) which is then contained inside of the universes we call large pieces of matter that are held together by the weak-electro force and gravity (that is even less permanent). These universes in turn float in the entire known universe (which we know as the higgs field and when taken as a whole is nearly permanent.)

So existence depends which layer you are viewing the universe from.

Quote:
You only need to look at species specific perceptual systems ( e.g. starving frogs failing to 'observe' dead insects, or fish 'feeling' prey by electromagnetic interaction) to understand that our evolving 'world' is a parochial construction, albeit a useful one (we hope!).
Species type has very little to do with the discussion except to demonstrate that intelligence is extremely important in being able to interpret data from different layers of universes while perceiving time say as to build patterns over from the past to predict the future.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2018 03:57 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
...but the information stored in atoms can be viewed as permanent.
. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/229052/atoms-in-motion-existence-of-permanent-objects
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 11:05 am
@Leadfoot,
According to Genesis- man wanted his Freedom to do whatever he wanted.
God LET them- and we are 'enjoying' such!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 12:04 pm
@MadJW,
No god. Environment and nature.
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 05:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cicerone, Can you completely deny the possiblity of the existence of God? Most people would be hard pressed to even explain their own existence.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 06:07 pm
@auroreII,
Yes. It's based on the fact that different cultures in different countries created their own gods. Also, the christian god appeared only 2,000 years ago, and man existed for over 200,000. The Christian god is based on Egyptian mythologies. https://www.ancient.eu/article/884/gods--goddesses-of-ancient-egypt---a-brief-history/ Also, man (Homo sapiens) evolved from primates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
MadJW
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 08:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah.
Endless Impossibilities stacked upon Endless Impossibilities.
The Ultimate Idiocy.
MadJW
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 08:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes. It's based on the fact that different cultures in different countries created their own gods. Also, the christian god appeared only 2,000 years ago, and man existed for over 200,000. The Christian god is based on Egyptian mythologies. https://www.ancient.eu/article/884/gods--goddesses-of-ancient-egypt---a-brief-history/ Also, man (Homo sapiens) evolved from primates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution



Goes back to before Egypt, thoughtless one.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 08:57 pm
@MadJW,
Do you really have "thoughts?"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2018 09:05 pm
@MadJW,
The only " Endless Impossibilities" are creating so many gods around the world, they cannot be produced by evidence. Gods are based on "faith."
Search Results on Faith...a gift from God and not something generated by people. What makes christians believe their god that was created only 2000 years ago is the true god over all the other gods that existed long before their god? My observation and "faith" tells me that gods are all the creation of men. From Quora: "Throughout recorded history, we can count anywhere from 8,000–12,000 gods who have been worshiped. But we can only count around 9 different types of gods (based on theological characteristics) that have been worshiped. Every modern god also fits into one of these types, and 5 of them are Hindu types.
No one is quite sure how many gods are still worshiped in modern times, but the list is likely no fewer than 24 major gods and maybe about a 100 or so minor deities and spirits."
0 Replies
 
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 02:31 am
@cicerone imposter,
I believe Jesus appeared on earth 2000 years ago. I think the christian God has been historically referenced long before then. The article you listed does show similarities between the Egyptian beliefs and christian beliefs, but it doesn't mean that the one was predicated on the other.
Isn't it possible for something to exist beyond our five senses. What constitutes existence? Do I exist only in my own mind? Christianity is more than existence. It is walking with God as he reveals to us his presence. That is something you have to be open to, at least it is in part, to be a christian. God is present in every ones lives. Christians tend to seek after him. Doesn't mean we're wrong, only that we have a different viewpoint.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 07:31 am
@MadJW,
Quote:
According to Genesis- man wanted his Freedom to do whatever he wanted.
God LET them- and we are 'enjoying' such!

Yeah, hav'n a great time here. Tell me when it's over
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 03:26 pm
@auroreII,
Quote:
Isn't it possible for something to exist beyond our five senses.
. Sure, but we have science to provide us with accurate information about our environment, and philosophy to explain what life is all about. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/life-meaning/ The study of evolution, and how homo sapiens evolved are helpful in the search. Gods appeared too late in human history, and the fact that different countries and cultures created their own god only proves that man is prone to look for answers beyond ourselves. There is no evidence of any god. God's are based on faith.

Human evolution is the evolutionary process that led to the emergence of anatomically modern humans, beginning with the evolutionary history of primates – in particular genus Homo – and leading to the emergence of Homo sapiens as a distinct species of the hominid family, the great apes.
Human evolution - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 09:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The only " Endless Impossibilities" are creating so many gods around the world, they cannot be produced by evidence. Gods are based on "faith."
Search Results on Faith...a gift from God and not something generated by people. What makes christians believe their god that was created only 2000 years ago is the true god over all the other gods that existed long before their god?


I think your following two quotes are misleading because The book of Genesis in the Catholic Bible records this. (and Catholics are Christians too by the way)

Quote:
Gods appeared too late in human history, and the fact that different countries and cultures created their own god only proves that man is prone to look for answers beyond ourselves.


Quote:
Genesis 4 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
Cain Murders Abel
4 Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have produced[a] a man with the help of the Lord.” 2 Next she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground. 3 In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4 and Abel for his part brought of the firstlings of his flock, their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, 5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. 6 The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

8 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out to the field.” And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” He said, “I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And the Lord said, “What have you done? Listen; your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it will no longer yield to you its strength; you will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! 14 Today you have driven me away from the soil, and I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and anyone who meets me may kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so![c] Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod,[d] east of Eden.

Beginnings of Civilization
17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael the father of Methushael, and Methushael the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives; the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives:

“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say:
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for striking me.
24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”

25 Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, for she said, “God has appointed[e] for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to invoke the name of the Lord.


As, the last sentence of above states, people started recognizing God the Father as Lord after the birth of Seth's son which was two generations after the dawn of modern human beings. Wikipedia states this about the book of Genesis where this is recorded.

Quote:
Scholars in the first half of the 20th century came to the conclusion that the Yahwist was produced in the monarchic period, specifically at the court of Solomon, 10th century BC, and the Priestly work in the middle of the 5th century BC (the author was even identified as Ezra), but more recent thinking is that the Yahwist was written either just before or during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century BC, and the Priestly final edition was made late in the Exilic period or soon after.[7]


And a quote from the link you posted earlier states

Quote:
H. sapiens
Main articles: Archaic humans, Anatomically modern humans, Archaic human admixture with modern humans, and Homo sapiens § Recent evolution
H. sapiens (the adjective sapiens is Latin for "wise" or "intelligent") emerged around 300,000 years ago, likely derived from Homo heidelbergensis.[190] Between 400,000 years ago and the second interglacial period in the Middle Pleistocene, around 250,000 years ago, the trend in intra-cranial volume expansion and the elaboration of stone tool technologies developed, providing evidence for a transition from H. erectus to H. sapiens. The direct evidence suggests there was a migration of H. erectus out of Africa, then a further speciation of H. sapiens from H. erectus in Africa. A subsequent migration (both within and out of Africa) eventually replaced the earlier dispersed H. erectus. This migration and origin theory is usually referred to as the "recent single-origin hypothesis" or "out of Africa" theory. H. sapiens interbred with archaic humans both in Africa and in Eurasia, in Eurasia notably with Neanderthals and Denisovans.[191]


So, when you say Christianity started with the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago, you are incorrect. The first recorded writings are the book of Genesis which were recorded somewhere between 2,600 to 3,000 years ago. But that is when they were recorded in written form. When they were authored and then passed on through oral tradition is much harder to pinpoint but the oral traditions more than likely started at the dawn of human about civilization about 300,000 years ago not 2,000 years ago as your (repeated in this blog and many others) misleading statement implies.

Eventually this Spiritual God revealed His nature in a physical body through a virgin birth 2,000 years ago as the person known as Jesus.

So, now that you know the facts why don't you say (just as repeatedly in the future)?:

"All monotheistic religions started as a vague understanding of God probably around 300,000 years ago as oral traditions and myths that, were recorded as written traditions around 6,000 to 10,000 years ago which, culminated in a much greater understanding of that monotheistic God when He stepped onto Earth 2,000 years ago as Jesus Christ."

Otherwise, when you repeatedly say, "Christianity has its origins 2,000 years ago" you are repeatedly misleading people wouldn't you say?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 10:49 pm
@brianjakub,
If you believe in the Bible, what happens to all those people who lived before your Jesus' time on this planet - to "save them?" Why did your god appear only 2,000 years ago when Homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years? Why did different countries and cultures create their own gods? Why was Jesus only for the Jews? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/09/christianity-judaism In the Bible[edit]
According to the Bible, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2,
"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."

Prophet Amos as depicted by Gustave Doré
The Torah also says,
"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5).
God promises that he will never exchange his people with any other:
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you." (Genesis 17:7).
Other Torah verses about chosenness,
"And you shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation" (Exodus 19:6).
"The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you were more in number than any people; for you were the fewest of all people; but because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your ancestors." (Deuteronomy 7:7–8).
The obligation imposed upon the Israelites was emphasized by the prophet Amos (3:2):
"You only have I singled out of all the families of the earth: therefore will I visit upon you all your iniquities."
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Dec, 2018 03:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
Cicerone:
Quote:
If you believe in the Bible, what happens to all those people who lived before your Jesus' time on this planet - to "save them?" Why did your god appear only 2,000 years ago when Homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years? Why did different countries and cultures create their own gods?


Our Universe was created for man and God to live together for the express purpose of using the information God stored in the universe as matter to learn about God and His nature by experiencing life through the creation new things together with God. In the beginning men were godlike in nature and were intimately involved in the creation of new life forms on Earth.

Bible:
Quote:
Gen1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind[c] in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth,[d] and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

27 So God created humankind[e] in his image,
in the image of God he created them;[f]
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 29 God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


That is the story of the initial universe without death. We have no fossil record of that time because, it happened before there were fossils and man were godlike and did not die. There was no second law of thermal dynamics and therefore biology didn't live and die like it does now as we see below when it says there was a time 5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground;. There is no one to till the ground because man is still godlike and has not fallen yet.

Bible:
Quote:
Another Account of the Creation
In the day that the Lord[a] God made the earth and the heavens, 5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; 6 but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground— 7 then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


This second story of creation talks about the time we are seeing in the fossil record where godlike men were intimately involved in the evolution of the animals we see today in the fossil record. Cain will be the first man to fall and became a wanderer of the Earth like we are today.

Bible:
Quote:
8 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out to the field.” And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” He said, “I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And the Lord said, “What have you done? Listen; your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it will no longer yield to you its strength; you will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! 14 Today you have driven me away from the soil, and I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and anyone who meets me may kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so![c] Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod,[d] east of Eden.

Beginnings of Civilization
17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael the father of Methushael, and Methushael the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives; the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.


Cain and his descendants are the first humans in the fossil record. There is no date in the bible marking this time, so it must use the fossil record to determine the timing of this mythological event somewhere around 300,000 years ago.

There is a time in the bible when the initial race of godlike men existed alongside the fallen race of Cain and all these godlike men were worshiped as the gods of mythology and the gods of the other cultures. They are the descendants of Seth. At that time people began to invoke the name of the Lord to differentiate Him from the godlike men.

Bible:
Quote:
25 Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, for she said, “God has appointed[e] for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to invoke the name of the Lord.


These godlike men are referred to as the Nephilim.

Bible:
Quote:
6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide[a] in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.


Noah and his family were the last Nephilim (gods of mythology). Noah descendants eventually evolved into men like us and the rest of the Nephilim were destroyed by the flood event.

Cicerone:
Quote:
Why did different countries and cultures create their own gods?


The gods of mythology and the flood event are a reoccurring story told in most cultures of the world. (Do you think that is just a coincidence? Or, could it be there is some truth behind the similarities?) All these mythological stories from other cultures overlap with the bible because, they really existed as the Nephilim as recorded in the mythological story in the Bible and, some sort of universal event that happened that really changed things on Earth as recorded as the mythological event in the Bible known as the flood.

0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Dec, 2018 04:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Why was Jesus only for the Jews?


First the apostles were sent out to convert the Jews because the Jews were the ones that had been chosen to write the Old testament and provide the bloodline that would eventually provide the virgin for His birth. Every educated Jew knew that Jesus would be a Son of Seth, Noah, Abraham and David. They were looking for a Savior of virgin birth and, they had the law that Jesus came to fulfill, as prophesied and so the Jewish believers in Gods plan should recognize Him. So John the Baptist and the twelve apostles were sent out to announce He has arrived only to the Jews.

Quote:
Matthew 3:1 [ The Proclamation of John the Baptist ] In those days John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness of Judea, proclaiming,


Quote:
Matthew 10:5 [ The Mission of the Twelve ] These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,


And many Jewish people accepted Him as the fulfillment of the prophecy and understood that after He died and rose from the dead that the law had been fulfilled and they no longer had to sacrifice animals. These Jewish Christians are recognized then and now as completed Jews. Even Jesus affirmed this even as He died.

Bible:
Quote:
Luke 12:50 I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and what stress I am under until it is completed!

John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work.

John 19:30 When Jesus had received the wine, he said, “It is finished.” Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.


After He rose from the dead His plan of salvation was then presented to the Gentiles (which includes you and your family cicerone).

Quote:
Matthew 12:18 “Here is my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

Matthew 12:21 And in his name the Gentiles will hope.

Luke 2:32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel.”

Luke 21:24 they will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken away as captives among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is an instrument whom I have chosen to bring my name before Gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel;

Acts 10:34 [ Gentiles Hear the Good News ] Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality,35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36 You know the message he sent to the people of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ—he is Lord of all. 37 That message spread throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John announced: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 We are witnesses to all that he did both in Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; 40 but God raised him on the third day and allowed him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, and who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 10:44 [ Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit ] While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word.

Acts 10:45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

Acts 11:1 [ Peter’s Report to the Church at Jerusalem ] Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God.

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they were silenced. And they praised God, saying, “Then God has given even to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 13:46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles.

Acts 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, ‘I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, so that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers.

Acts 14:27 When they arrived, they called the church together and related all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith for the Gentiles.

Acts 15:3 So they were sent on their way by the church, and as they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, they reported the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the believers.

Acts 15:7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers.

Acts 15:12 The whole assembly kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul as they told of all the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the Gentiles.


cicerone:
Quote:
According to the Bible, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2,


Jewish people people who believe in Christ and practice their religion so as not to forget the story.

Go to the Easter Vigil Sacrifice of the Mass at a Roman Catholic Church and you will see the entire story played out including the the same "real" sacrifice that the Jews offered according to the law but, now is fulfilled at the cross and at the sacrifice of every Catholic mass by Jesus, once and for all. (Including you and I)

It's amazing, how God can step out of time and save every human that ever existed, through one act that happened at one point in time. Thank goodness God exists outside the universe and only entered the universe as a human to fulfill this law. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible for Him to be the Savior of all believers at all points in time!

Merry Christmas
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Dec, 2018 01:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
"The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you were more in number than any people; for you were the fewest of all people; but because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your ancestors." (Deuteronomy 7:7–8).
. God taught bigotry long before it became popular in "democracies."
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 08:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
. God taught bigotry long before it became popular in "democracies."

God Created one person and his descendants to deliver important information to rest of the human race. That person was Adam. Unfortunately and out of jealousy, one of Adams two descendants killed the other when, "Cain" killed Abel . God then replaced Abel with a new son for the same purpose and his name was Seth.

Genesis 4:25 Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, for she said, “God has appointed for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him.”

He did not appoint him out of bigotry, he appointed him because Cain lost the job when he showed he was no longer trustworthy when he killed Abel.

Eventually the same thing happened again later when God chose Noah and his descendants because everyone else was no longer deemed trustworthy by God to do it.

Gen6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out from the earth the human beings I have created—people together with animals and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord.

Noah's descendant Abraham was then given the responsibility because he proved himself worthy.

You can tell though, that Abraham understood a righteous man was coming that was going to have to be the perfect sacrifice for everyone's sins so that at the end of the age everyone that trusted in God could be resurrected and, that person was going to be a descendant of Seth. This was told to Eve in this prophecy.

Gen3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
cursed are you among all animals
and among all wild creatures;
upon your belly you shall go,
and dust you shall eat
all the days of your life.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

So, when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, neither of them resisted because they both believed the prophecy and assumed Issac was that man.

Gen22:6 Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. So the two of them walked on together. 7 Isaac said to his father Abraham, “Father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” He said, “The fire and the wood are here, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” 8 Abraham said, “God himself will provide the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So the two of them walked on together.

They both new what was coming and trusted God that they and the rest of mankind would be resurrected after Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac. But, what their faith allowed God to reveal to them was that:

1. They were really the chosen race that was going to reveal God's plan by there experiences as a "Nation" (developing a civilization according to laws based on the 10 commandments) and thenm record this information in Holy Scripture.

2. They (as a nation)would also record prophecies that he gives certain members of that nation along with the responsibility to eventually record all this information in Holy Scripture.

3. They (as a nation) were to reveal who the real person was that would die for their sins and the sins of all mankind at that person would be a direct descendant of God the Father as the Holy Spirit would some day impregnate a Virgin named Mary.

4. The most important part was that (they as a nation) would provide the bloodline and there fore Mary would be a descendant of Seth, Noah, and Abraham.

So, God's favor with Israel is not bigotry but rather of a plan of survival for a Divine purpose for the descendants of Abraham. And, as the Serpent (satan) already revealed when; he convinced Eve to eat the apple and, Cain to kill Abel, Satan was not going to just sit by and watch this happen. He wanted to thwart God's plan so God used some drastic measures to prevent it. The thing about God though is,"He can resurrect anyone he wants at any time" so, when he allows death to be part of the plan he already has a plan in place to allow for the resurrection of the righteous believers in His Godly Plan.

So, no matter which Nation a person belongs to or, what color their skin is or, what period in history they lived or, etc. . . They have the God given right to be resurrected and for that reason:

GOD IS NOT A BIGOT! IF YOU THINK HE IS A BIGOT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PLAN!

AND, ONLY THE INTERPRETER (THE HOLY SPIRIT) CAN REVEAL IT TO YOU.

And that requires a choice to submit to God's will and then the diligence to ask and seek.

Ask, Search, Knock
Mathew7:7 “Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10 Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Does this help clarify things a little? If not please keep asking.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 01:35 pm
@brianjakub,
To wipe out the whole human race except Noah was bigoted and uncalled for. Humans are prone to "sin." All animals kill other living things. That's the nature of life. Famines, floods, and draughts kill millions without discrimination. That's nature, not god.
 

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