54
   

How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 09:21 pm
@Leadfoot,
When the little pixies run everything, stories like Noah's flood will make a little more sense. Right now, they don't.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 10:38 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Babies had gone "irretrievably bad"?

Come on guys. You have to pretend there is a God if you are going to critique the story. I mean if you reject that premise, it's not possible to discuss how good or evil he might be.

If you are God, creator of the universe and time itself, it would be easy to run the clock forward and see just how they would turn out.

And before you scoff at the idea of time travel, consider that theoretical physicists now say there is no reason time cannot be run either forwards or backwards. They say the math proves it so they would have no problem with a god that could do that.


So, God let the babies be born in the first place while he already knew how they'd turn out and he knew he'd kill them before the fact. What a sadist.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 10:08 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
So, God let the babies be born in the first place while he already knew how they'd turn out and he knew he'd kill them before the fact. What a sadist.

You are assuming the worst case motives and order of events, which I see is often your perspective. You are not starting with the assumption of a good and loving God but rather a malevolent one.

But if we are talking hypotheticals, who knows at what point God grants you your soul. I don't know but it could be at ant point, not necessarily birth. I know full grown adults who I could swear have none. Or perhaps they renounced them.

So maybe God never gave those babies souls. Hell, for all I know, God made all the men and women sterile befor the flood and there were no babies.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 11:20 am
@Leadfoot,
There's no apologetic you can come up with that excuses an omnipotent and omniscient being from concluding that genocide is the proper solution to a problem. You're in denial of the obvious.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 11:21 am
@InfraBlue,
We're all missing the point of how people turn out. Much of it has to do with how the brain is wired; the chemistry within it. Doctors can manipulate the brain in many ways. There are reasons why humans enjoy foods that increase the dopamine. Humans will tend to move toward those rewards.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
So, God let the babies be born in the first place while he already knew how they'd turn out and he knew he'd kill them before the fact. What a sadist.

You are assuming the worst case motives and order of events, which I see is often your perspective. You are not starting with the assumption of a good and loving God but rather a malevolent one.

We can start with the assumption of a good and loving God rather than a malevolent one, but then God having let the babies be born in the first place while he already knew how they'd turn out and he knew he'd kill them before the fact blows that assumption out of the water.

Leadfoot wrote:
But if we are talking hypotheticals, who knows at what point God grants you your soul. I don't know but it could be at ant point, not necessarily birth. I know full grown adults who I could swear have none. Or perhaps they renounced them.

So maybe God never gave those babies souls. Hell, for all I know, God made all the men and women sterile befor the flood and there were no babies.


Sure, whatever it takes to rationalize the idea of a good and loving God with the stories about the God of the Bible.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 02:44 pm
@InfraBlue,
Lotsa rationalizations going on.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 04:56 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
There's no apologetic you can come up with that excuses an omnipotent and omniscient being from concluding that genocide is the proper solution to a problem. You're in denial of the obvious.

Who said anything about an omnipotent God? The concept itself is absurd.

That you would use it tells me you aren't serious about hypothesizing about the question of God. So arguing over a story about him is kind of a waste.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 04:59 pm
This thread is about as edifying as a discussion of Superman comics.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2016 05:06 pm
News flash! No babies or chrildren were harmed in the making of this flood!
Quote:
Genesis 7:22-23 KJV
[22] … , died. [23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. …

If you wanna get literal about the words...
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2016 01:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quentin Tarantino wrote an excellent monologue about Superman in Kill Bill: Vol. 2, Bill

Quote:
As you know, l’m quite keen on comic books. Especially the ones about superheroes. I find the whole mythology surrounding superheroes fascinating. Take my favorite superhero, Superman. Not a great comic book, not particularly well-drawn, but the mythology. The mythology is not only great, it’s unique…Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is, there’s the superhero and there’s the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he’s Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn’t become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he’s Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red “S”, that’s the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears – the glasses, the business suit – that’s the costume. That’s the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He’s weak, he’s unsure of himself, he’s a coward. Clark Kent is Superman’s critique on the whole human race. Sorta like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plympton…You would’ve worn the costume of Arlene Plympton. But you were born Beatrix Kiddo. And every morning when you woke up, you’d still be Beatrix Kiddo…I’m calling you a killer. A natural born killer. You always have been, and you always will be. Moving to El Paso, working in a used record store, goin’ to the movies with Tommy, clipping coupons. That’s you, trying to disguise yourself as a worker bee. That’s you tryin’ to blend in with the hive. But you’re not a worker bee. You’re a renegade killer bee. And no matter how much beer you drank or barbecue you ate or how fat your ass got, nothing in the world would ever change that…
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2016 01:38 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

News flash! No babies or chrildren were harmed in the making of this flood!
Quote:
Genesis 7:22-23 KJV
[22] … , died. [23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. …

If you wanna get literal about the words...

"And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground," would include babies and children.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2016 04:08 pm
@InfraBlue,
That's just your read.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2016 07:36 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

That's just your read.
No. It's not.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2016 07:48 pm
@InfraBlue,
You are correct; only Noah's family survived with the animals.
Rain poured out from dark, thundering skies in unending torrents. Waves of loosened earth and trees slid down hillsides burying plants by the thousands. All of the cities were totally destroyed. And so was God’s Garden in Eden. For forty days the rains continued. And the waves continued to rise, fed by vast amounts of underground water which used to feed the rivers and springs of the world, including the Garden in the land of Eden. Under the pressure of this worldwide disaster, the earth shook again and again causing huge tsunami waves to sweep across the sinking land. So great was the destruction that every human being died and with them, millions of animals and plants. The only people spared were Noah’s faithful family. According to God’s instructions, Noah built a great barge-shaped boat to save his family and thousands of animals to be used to refill the Earth. God protected this precious ship and its passengers throughout the disaster which lasted over one year.

Read more at: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ednks003.html
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2016 06:09 am
@cicerone imposter,
After which, as the fairytale goes, in an effort to repopulate a planet of nearly 7 billion in just a few thousand years, Noah's family began a generations-long orgy of incest to rival even the bunnies with their fecundity.

Such a lovely story. We should tell it to all our kids.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2016 08:10 am
@rosborne979,
Beats "Son, your great, great, great grandfather was a chimp, and his was a bacteria."

:-)
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2016 08:38 am
@Leadfoot,
No it doesn't. And at least the chimp story is true. That's worth everything.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2016 12:41 pm
@rosborne979,
Well, at least we agree on the truth being worth everything.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2016 06:31 pm
@Leadfoot,
Well, that sounds like a good start, but something tells me we will end up debating the meaning of "truth" before too long.
 

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