Yet another rape question.

As many here know, I was raped and had a child from it, my son. I am certainly quite a mess re all of it, even now.

Rapey questions annoy me, but, I suppose they are useful. I will likely keep complaining.

I didn't know that Osso. I am sorry.

I was raped as a child. I have had a long time to deal with it, but it never fully stops hurting.

Well, I guess you can go onto the other forum and tell everyone there they are wrong.
Actually, you can't as I'm not going to threaten our privacy. This forum wouldn't be of interest to you in any event, and you wouldn't be of interest to us.
I made no suggestions, or arguments, I presented as clearly as I could what was brought up elsewhere.

It is clear you want this thread to follow a path I had not asked for, intended or welcome.

So, please feel free to take this over from this point on, and talk about whatever you wish. It's all yours.

For the other 2 responders, punky and edgar, thanks for your input. It will be helpful to share with my other group that has a specific, and not general purpose.

Peace, Max. I know I battle you, but I also like you. Hang in.

Chai, We exist.

You can deny our stories. You can discount our pain. But we still exist.

Some people accept that there are male survivors.

I like you too Osso. Somehow butting heads on A2K is cathartic.... Peace.

gotcha

My intellectual side wants to laugh at what Chai said... the idea that I would miss her forum.

It took me till my mid twenties to start realizing that what happened to me was not my fault. I was 10 when my sexual abuse started (it lasted several years). Society makes it very difficult for us, as men, to face the fact that something bad was done to us.

In that way, the idea of being shut out hurts a bit.

thank you for talking

oh, look, the thread has claimed a zero.

She says "He took off the condom"
He says " She took off the condom in the heat of the night"
The truth is; it was an old EU condom.
Some years ago EU made a law which had to be changed. All condoms in EU had to have to same size. Did not work out - some fell off.

No I wouldn't classify this as rape - rape is controlling another person; having sex without consent; not being sneaky and not using birth control.

Look at it this way -- say woman was trying to trap a guy and get pregnant. She tells him she is using birth control pills, but isn't - they have sex --- would you think the woman raped the man?

Or if say this friend pin pricked (pun intended) his buddy's condoms - this guy has sex unknowing his condoms has a hole - he gets the girl pregnant - was this other friend then raping the girl?

It is slimy and sneaky but not rape.

That is not to say - this person should not be punished in some way - I just can't say it is rape.

I can also understand it is slightly different for women just in the sense that it has a bigger impact to them directly.

Being forced to have a child that you aren't expecting and didn't want seems like a pretty big impact to me. I will let other men speak for themselves, but I suspect most men would agree with this.

Here is one other thought --- not that I am trying to diminish how bad it is to lie about something with such a big impact...

But using a condom is not 100% effective - so there is some risk you are taking by agreeing to having sex with someone using a condom. It isn't like you use a condom and then there is no chance of pregnancy just much more reduced.

I dated someone once that had a child as a result of using a condom - he did not want a child at all at the time so he definitely was careful with it. It does happen -- does that thought change the idea it is rape? Just throwing it out there.

"She would not have sex with him without him using one."


As long as that was made clear to him beforehand, then :

Consent with.
No consent without.

As soon as he secretly removed the thing, he was then having sex without her consent.

Sexual Intercourse without consent is rape.

I agree with that point Linkat.

It is pretty darn important to me that anyone I have sex with is honest about things like this. I would have an easier time accepting that a condom failed than I would that my partner deliberately lied.

But I agree with you that that doesn't rise to the level of rape.

OK Lordy. Now reverse the genders.

If the man gives consent with birth control and no consent without.

Is it still rape if the woman has sex with him without his consent?

If you are arguing based on principle, the principle should work the same in either case.

Who is saying that it doesn't?

I was answering the question as set by Chai.

In British Law it is rape where:

1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.



I would argue that certainly clause (c) comes into play, as he did not believe that B consented to such penetration.
He was fully aware that she did not want intercourse under such circumstances.

It was not rape up until the moment when he removed the condom. Without the condom.... "(b) B does not consent to the penetration."

Really? England hasn't fixed this yet? This is a horrible definition.

A 35 year old female teacher having sex with a 14 or 15 year old boy (there have been several recent cases of this) isn't statutory rape?

What about an older physically abusive female inserting toys into the anus of a pre-adolescent male cousin?

Both of these are now considered rape in US law (and both are actual cases). In any rational sense they are rape.

I just did a little reading, and and this is deeply disturbing.

When physical abuse perpetrated by a woman against a boy includes vaginal intercourse, it is apparently still not considered rape in the UK. This is amazing to me in the 21st century.