6
   

Is The Bible Just a Good Book?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 12:44 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
One can, at least, determine if there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is a true account.
True, and in many cases that has happened. Several cities mentioned in the bible were long believed to be a myth but archeologists in recent history did find them.

But that misses the whole point of the book. The book makes a number of outrageous statements and promises to anyone who seeks God that can easily be tested. Not just the ones about life after death but during life here and now. They are easily tested with only your own life as the 'laboratory' . No extensive education, research or archeological digs required.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 12:49 pm
@Leadfoot,
Thats a silly bunch of circular reasoning.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 12:51 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
One can, at least, determine if there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is a true account.
True, and in many cases that has happened. Several cities mentioned in the bible were long believed to be a myth but archeologists in recent history did find them.

But that misses the whole point of the book. The book makes a number of outrageous statements and promises to anyone who seeks God that can easily be tested. Not just the ones about life after death but during life here and now. They are easily tested with only your own life as the 'laboratory' . No extensive education, research or archeological digs required.

Can you present some evidence to me that a being created the universe? That would seem to be a central part of the book.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 01:02 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Can you present some evidence to me that a being created the universe? That would seem to be a central part of the book.
I agree. But you mean something better than the inexplicable emergence of it coming from nothing in the Big Bang?
And please don't bother citing the quantum physics based speculation which neither you, I or the speculators themselves understand. 'Created itself from nothing', 'Quantum Fluctuation', etc. My ass.

The Big Bang may not prove it but it's a hell of a piece of circumstantial evidence. Certainly good enough to go forward with the possibility that something supernatural created the universe.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:10 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
It has historical content - So does every document ever produced.
But is not, nor ever was, a document compiled as a history book.

Yes, but just like every other thing that was written down back then, historians can sift the facts from the falsehoods and learn from it.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:11 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
'true'?
How can 'truth' be absolute?

By being factually correct.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:12 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
One can, at least, determine if there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is a true account.

Some parts are, some parts aren't. But that does little to answer the question of whether there is a God, whether there is an afterlife waiting for us, or whether there is a system of divine justice awaiting us.

Those questions are actually exclusive of each other too. For instance, it is hypothetically possible that there is no God, but there is an afterlife, and our prayers are heard by the spirits of our ancestors.

Or it is possible that there is a God, but there is no afterlife and God doesn't even care about us.

Or there is a God, but no afterlife, and God does care about us (while we live at least).

There are all sorts of possibilities, and no way for anyone to know what the truth of the matter is.

I for one am hoping for an afterlife and a divine system of justice. But I have no actual idea what awaits us.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:45 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Can you present some evidence to me that a being created the universe? That would seem to be a central part of the book.
I agree. But you mean something better than the inexplicable emergence of it coming from nothing in the Big Bang?
And please don't bother citing the quantum physics based speculation which neither you, I or the speculators themselves understand. 'Created itself from nothing', 'Quantum Fluctuation', etc. My ass.

The Big Bang may not prove it but it's a hell of a piece of circumstantial evidence. Certainly good enough to go forward with the possibility that something supernatural created the universe.

The theory of the big bang and cosmic inflation rests on a lot of physics that you don't happen to know. It has been deduced as the best explanation for a lot of evidence and has been tested many times by seeing what the equations predict and observing whether the predictions are true or not or by making new measurements to confirm or refute. I doubt that "created from nothing" is an accurate statement of the actual theory. Even if much of it is not understood, it is evidence and physics based, which puts it head and shoulders above "some really smart magical being." No theory based on magic has ever, ever, ever been proven to be true in a repeatable way, whereas untold theories based on physics have been proven to be true.

I did not fail to notice that you didn't answer the question I actually asked. Please give me some evidence that a supernatural being created the world, and "what else could it be?" hardly qualifies as evidence.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:47 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
One can, at least, determine if there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is a true account.


...There are all sorts of possibilities, and no way for anyone to know what the truth of the matter is....

Thank you for stating my argument that there is insufficient evidence to justify a belief in a being who created the universe.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 05:50 pm
@Brandon9000,
You're welcome. Note that there is also insufficient evidence to justify a belief that there is no afterlife or divine system of justice awaiting us.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 06:10 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
You're welcome. Note that there is also insufficient evidence to justify a belief that there is no afterlife or divine system of justice awaiting us.

I certainly haven't seen sufficient evidence.

Are you getting the bad weather I've been hearing about on the news?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 06:28 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
Are you getting the bad weather I've been hearing about on the news?

There is a thin layer of white on the ground. It looks kind of like granular snow.

The radar shows some sort of precipitation passing by a little ways south of me.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 06:37 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Are you getting the bad weather I've been hearing about on the news?

There is a thin layer of white on the ground. It looks kind of like granular snow.

The radar shows some sort of precipitation passing by a little ways south of me.

You're lucky from what I hear of the weather in the north. This is just about the best time of the year to be at my location, Florida. We'll pay for it from May through December, when it's almost to hot to go out.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 08:22 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
The theory of the big bang and cosmic inflation rests on a lot of physics that you don't happen to know.
You are attempting to deny not only reality but the best minds in physics that say we have no idea about the origin of the singularity that was the source of the Big Bang.

The Bang, inflation, matter, all that came after the fact. No one has even hinted at what came before other than the likes of Hawking's pathetic 'The universe is able to create itself from nothing'.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 08:46 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
The theory of the big bang and cosmic inflation rests on a lot of physics that you don't happen to know.
You are attempting to deny not only reality but the best minds in physics that say we have no idea about the origin of the singularity that was the source of the Big Bang.

The Bang, inflation, matter, all that came after the fact. No one has even hinted at what came before other than the likes of Hawking's pathetic 'The universe is able to create itself from nothing'.

Physicists have figured out a lot. We don't have much to work with in figuring out what set the big bang in motion. Maybe physics will figure it out some day or maybe we're not smart enough, but belief that the cause is a magic guy is certainly not justified by any evidence we have. All the verifiable information we have about the universe so far has been obtained by science. Not one scrap of verifiable information about the universe has a magical explanation.

For the third time, I ask you to please present some evidence that the universe was created by a supernatural being. It is not rationally justified to believe things with no evidence that they're so.
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 09:39 pm
@Brandon9000,
" It is not rationally justified to believe things with no evidence that they're so."

I think these beliefs are NOT rational, and so can't even be discussed in this way.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 01:47 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
It is not rationally justified to believe things with no evidence that they're so.

There is no evidence that people's minds cease to exist when they die, and do not go on to any sort of afterlife.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:16 am
That is the argument from ignorance fallacy--that because something has not been proven to be false, it must be true. That line or reasoning should stop with the statement that there is no evidence.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 03:06 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
That is the argument from ignorance fallacy--that because something has not been proven to be false, it must be true.

What is? I've certainly not made such an argument.


Setanta wrote:
That line or reasoning should stop with the statement that there is no evidence.

Indeed. The proper conclusion when there is no evidence is that the truth is unknowable given our current knowledge.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 03:10 am
@oralloy,
In responding to Brandon's remark, quoted here, you made the following statement:

oralloy wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
It is not rationally justified to believe things with no evidence that they're so.
There is no evidence that people's minds cease to exist when they die, and do not go on to any sort of afterlife.


Perhaps you did not intend to promulgate an argument from ignorance--in which case i'd advise you to be more careful about what you write, especially in light of the remark of Brandon's which you quoted.
 

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