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I think we need different words to differentiate "hard" bigotry from "soft" bigotry

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:25 am
@Robert Gentel,
I wasn't thinking racism in particular. Imagine walking into a room where no one speaks your language or you are markedly different in some way. It's normal to raise your awareness.
At that point, bigotry is the camel waiting to poke its head under the flap to your tent.

BTW, this has no bearing on the Seahawks' glorious 2016 season and Super Bowl 51 victory. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 04:51 am
@Lash,
Culture is a social thing. It does not belong to any single person. Cultural traits travel and cross into other cultures all the time. Am I "misappropriating the black culture" if I sing along some Bob Marley tune?

That chick from San Francisco State U seems like a cultural segragationist.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 06:08 am
To the OP: Where would you draw the line between soft and hard?
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 12:46 pm
@Olivier5,
I'm not sure that really matters (to this discussion). For example, if we said we wanted words to exist for the concepts of "hot" and "cold" the merits of this proposal don't have a lot to do with where we draw the line between what is hot and what is cold and it is obviously useful to have terms to describe the concepts even if everyone differs slightly in what they consider hot or cold.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:43 pm
@Robert Gentel,
That's true. There are degrees in racism. But different words apply already: "prejudice" is softer than "bigotry" is softer than "racism", no?

Would "prejudiced" work?
timur
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:48 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Problem arises when perfectly constructed sentences show contradicting concepts.

An example: That icy beauty is hot as hell.
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engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 02:00 pm
@Olivier5,
I think you need a word like "ignorant" as opposed to "stupid". You might not like being ignorant, but the word implies that you can get knowledge and change where stupid implies a personal failing that is immutable.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 04:01 pm
Language has always adapted to circumstance. The fact that such words don't already exist shows there's not much of a need. Racism has never been absolute anyway, it's always been a sliding scale. Not every white man uncomfortable with his children intermarrying is going to want to dress up as a member of the Klan.

It's always been like that, but that doesn't mean racism isn't racism regardless of how relatively 'benign' it might be. Inventing new words for 'nice' racism sounds like an attempt to rehabilitate, and ultimately normalise, casual racism.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 04:59 pm
The only reason for assigning degrees to racist attitudes would be to determine the severity of punishment for each degree. But racism is not a crime unless you act on your beliefs concerning what you believe the target-race deserves.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:07 pm
@izzythepush,
I doubt strongly that Robert, well able to defend his point, means it that way. I think he still thinks some of the lighter stuff is racism, not non-racism, but that our vocabulary could improve on this re the nuancing, or some word like that.

Ah well, he'll explain better than me.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:17 pm
@ossobuco,
I remember being with my grandmother a long time ago when two black men came out of a fishing shop. She said, "There's a couple chocolate boys."

The odd thing about that is that this woman was otherwise a kind and gracious person who wouldn't even swear. I guess that kind of racism would be called culturally installed.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:21 pm
@Glennn,
I think the ability to communicate effectively would be the primary reason to find an accurate word.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:28 pm
@Lash,
I see racism as ignorance. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. And I see it as having two levels: passive and aggressive.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:29 pm
@Glennn,
Culture and also war. I've mentioned a few times here about my aunt (whom we lived with, let's see, when I was in first and second grade, after Bikini, which my father was key in, but it was also when her husband had died and she was miserable), and later for three months when I was in 4th grade (father directing commercials), and then as a teen for about three years, after my parents lives imploded. She hated Japs, since there was great fear going on, on the coast of California back after Pearl Harbor, and she kept that hate going, later not liking my friends.

They weren't all japanese but a bunch were (my world widened at university) and later my best boss, born in the LA Valley, and then a best mentor, this one born in Japan, were, both of those, closer friends than work people, years now.
If you wonder, Tak (Cicerone) and I have talked about all this at length.

Plus she accused me of smoking maria-juana, which was, at the time though not for very long, false by a long shot.
I'm, y'know, sort of her opposite.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:29 pm
@Glennn,
Those descriptions seem helpful.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:42 pm
@ossobuco,
When I was 22, I had an emergency appendectomy. The nurse told me that there was only one doctor available at the time to do the surgery. She said, "Dr. Jung is the only doctor available. Is that okay?" I said, "I guess." And I gave her a puzzled look. She said, "Well, he's Korean." So I said, "Does he know how to do it?" She laughed and said, "Yeah." I said, "Yeah, fine."

It was as if the nurse was asking me if I was a bigot. I didn't see it exactly like that back then, but that's how it sounds to me today. Today I remember it as the nurse respecting my wishes by asking me if I respect Koreans. How odd.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 06:13 pm
@Glennn,
I can picture that. Maybe not in my longtime hospital in southern California (worked there years). Wonder what is going on with it? The nurse's personal take one way or another? Their fear of lawsuits re patients afraid of incompetent people of other races? Having patients whine about Koreans as surgeons? One incident that sparked their caution?

The thing about whites to me (am one) is that we can be incredibly boring. I now cannot imagine living in Nebraska..
Is that racist of me?

I now live in New Mexico, in Albuquerque. Plenty of hispanic or tribal people, and some blacks will show up once in a while, probably from the Air Force Base. Few Asians, on the other side of town. After Los Angeles, my long time home town, this is a desert in more ways than one.
I want to smile if I see a black at a grocery store, but temper it. Usually I say something, at least at my old quiet grocery store that just closed a couple of weeks ago, something stupid about the aisle or re food.

Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:46 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
The thing about whites to me (am one) is that we can be incredibly boring. I now cannot imagine living in Nebraska. Is that racist of me?

Why yes . . . yes it is. But I'm guessing that you've made it this far in your life without giving in to your urge to beat the hell out of one. And that speaks to your character. Well done. However, being a Nebraskan, I don't know if I could show the same restraint and refrain from beating the hell out of you if I were to come face to face with you. I'm pretty evolved, but not that evolved. Just a heads up on that. Smile

Plus you've caused me to derail the thread. But I'm just evolved enough to forgive you for that.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 08:05 pm
@Glennn,
I actually liked Omaha, when I was there for a couple of weeks. Also the rolling green hills.

But, me now, it wouldn't work.

Unless they still have the stockyards, but that brings up other questions that I differ on re what I thought before.

That doesn't qualify as racist, though. Steerest is more like it - I now prefer them alive.

Back to racism. I've no clue how much there is of that going on in Nebraska. My guess could be quite wrong re either hard or soft racism.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 08:32 pm
@ossobuco,
Okay, I'm not really from Nebraska. I lied. In fact, the only thing I know about Nebraska is what I learned about it when I hitchhiked from Michigan to Oregon with a friend back in the seventies. And what I learned was that in Nebraska's bars, people wore cowboy hats and that when a certain part of a song came on, they hooted. I was certain that down in the basement there was some hardcore, underground polka group letting it all hang out. So, actually I'm with you concerning Nebraska. The best part of it that I can recall is that you're completely within your rights to drink and smoke your way through it. And that's what I did.

End of derail, I promise.
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