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Artist ID, Style ID of Civil War Era Drawing/Sketch

 
 
iGeo
 
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 05:45 pm
I have a drawing / sketch of the George Washington Equestrian Monument by an artist who I can't make out. What I do know is that as pictured, it's a scene of the monument before the other founding father statues were erected in 1869. The GW monument was erected in 1858, so I believe that this sketch must have occurred before the Civil War, at the very early stages of the war, or after the Civil War (given also that a man is shown to be walking the dog casually, and folks probably didn't mill around a lot during the war). Then again, the streets are sparse, so maybe it could be during the Civil War. Also, I'm able to gauge the time period by the scene's lack of cars, wide pedestrian paths, etc.

What's very interesting to me is that the artist uses a very abstract style of art by use of either fountain pen or a really sharp utensil for watercolor. Does anyone know what style of art this is, and whether or not sketches / drawings of this abstract style were common back then? One prime example of the abstract style is how the dog appears very scribbled.

The artist's name appears to be "Pocireg" or "Poeireg" - can anyone make out who it is?

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee451/kovacs22/P1080191_zpsfsfzlkoh.jpg
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee451/kovacs22/P1080192_zpstvwlumcg.jpg

Thanks in advance!
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 05:52 pm
@iGeo,
Hi, and welcome. I'm no help but like the sketch. Others will be along at some point.
iGeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 05:57 pm
@ossobuco,
Thanks!

Does anyone know if this is even considered an "abstract" work at all? I know that sketches typically look "abstract" but I don't think that alone qualifies this as an abstract piece. The reason I ask is that the abstract movement began in the 1940s with the earliest abstract art dating back to the early 1900s. This sketch appears to be from the Civil War era, and it's very different from typical art back then. I'm not sure what sketches back then looked like though. But, if it's considered abstract art, then is this an earlier abstract artwork then what's documented!
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 06:09 pm
@iGeo,
I take it as that artist's mode of sketching (as we know, sketching varies). I don't think of it as abstract, myself, at all. How sketching varied over time is way out of my league (I'm a painter, have read a fair amount about art over years and years but no one to trust re art history).
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 06:16 pm
That doesn't look like Washington, and i don't think you're going to find sketches with buses in them in the era of the civil war, if by that you mean the American Civil War.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 06:20 pm
@Setanta,
It looks like Paris to me, but so do a lot of drawings.
Didn't notice a bus.
Never been to Paris (a song might follow).

Edit, I'd say so do a lot of sketches make me think of Paris, but I'm not immediately remembering any.

Re Washington, L'Enfant had a lot to do with the layout, but I'll guess you know that.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 07:14 pm
@ossobuco,
I like the "SChmear" effect that comes from the reflected light on the glass. We can almost see you (the OP) with your camera.

It gives an almost chiaroscuro sense to the drawing
0 Replies
 
iGeo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2016 09:40 pm
I'm fairly positive that it's the George Washington Equestrian Monument, as shown in the link provided below. The horse's head is turned the same way, the person's arm is positioned the same way, the horse's legs are positioned the same way, the tiers of the statue are the same, etc. Unless statue makers the world over copied that design for all their commissioned work...

http://www.vacapitol.org/washington.htm
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2016 03:32 pm
@iGeo,
The pedestal is very different as is location of surrounding buildings. The monument looks kind of generic to me.

And I think the people look more 20th than 19th century ie: the dog on the leash. The mat wasn't cut too carefully and the cut isn't tapered.

Because of the tape adhesive bleeding through to the front of the drawing, I think this piece has been re-matted and maybe re-framed.

These type of drawings were done plen aire. They were done quickly and during the late 1800's to 1920's it was common to do these instead of taking photos. They were also sold cheaply at tourist locations by local artists.



That signature looks so familiar.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 02:31 am
If that actually is a water color sketch of the statue in Richmond, it is such an appallingly bad rendition in terms of proportion, detail and placement in its setting that the artist deserves to be forgotten.
iGeo
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:08 pm
@Setanta,
Well, it looks like the pedestal changed a bit after the other statues were put into place (at least according to the black and white photos shown in the previous link). The landscape and buildings must have changed, too, as they likely have been razed and rebuilt due to the Civil War, especially for a border state such as Virginia.

And, IMHO proportions on a quick scribbled sketch deserves a little more slack. It's not a large drawing - it's only about half a regular sheet of printer paper size, so I think that's indeed what it was. I've seen worse sketches by more prominent artists.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:42 pm
@iGeo,
Its not a bad sketch at all . Its a quicky that was probably done plein aire as max said. (Ya never know). I like the quick expression, its indicative of someone who has the skill but is just trying to "get it down"
PS, Virginia was definitely NOT a border state. However, it did border a bunch of border states like Delaware, Maryland , Kentucky.
Va was the state that housed the capitol of the Confederacy.

We have a lotta civil war geeks here. I dont wanna see a newbie get yelled at for no reason but a slight misise of terms.

iGeo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 02:29 pm
@farmerman,
Yeah you're right. Correction: "near" border state.
0 Replies
 
iGeo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 08:49 pm
Also, the columns of one of the buildings looks similar to one in the black and white photo. It's consistent with the region and era (and to this day - Greco-Roman style such as the White House; or of Southern plantations).

I'm also wondering if this is a drawing by a soldier during some R&R time. Maybe wartime and its futility is emphasized by the GW statue and the sparseness of the streets. Entire towns, neighborhoods, etc. would lose entire generations of young and middle aged men since soldiers were assigned to units according to their residency (thus prompting draft and deployment reform to mix up the units' hometown affiliations).

Or it could signify that everyday life events still continues despite the fact that most of the men went off to war (or if it's the end of war, despite the loss of an entire generation). Maybe the real center of attention is the man walking his dog, which are positioned front and center (while the statue is oddly not). Man's best friend needs to do his business and life continues. Perhaps the scribbled sketching emphasizes the hurried nature of war time, which is juxtaposed by the man walking his dog.

But that's just a story I think of when I see that photo, assuming it's from the Civil War era.
0 Replies
 
iGeo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:14 pm
As for the artist, at the time of the Civil War, the US was less than 100 years old. Large pockets of immigrant communities were prolific. The US was flooded with immigrants from all over the world who were seeking new opportunities, jobs, ownership of land, freedom from persecution, building the railroads, gold hype, etc. Maybe the artist was one such immigrant or first generation American who got caught up in the war (i.e. a female artist's sketch since there's not much to do at home, a soldier on break drawing a piece of memory from home, etc.).
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 02:27 am
You have absolutely no reason to assume that this dates from the American civil war. You ignore the bus which can be seen in the background behind and to the right of the pediment, and another just below center on the right. You've made up a story in your head, and now you're insisting on it.
saab
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 02:43 am
@Setanta,
The bus, the dog and how many kings, military people do exists in Europe sitting on a horse pointing in one direction. It can be from so many places.
I think it is a rather modern scetch.
iGeo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 03:21 am
I don't see the buses... I see what you're referring to, but I don't see the buses.
0 Replies
 
iGeo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 03:22 am
@Setanta,
I do have reasons, thought not necessarily to assume but to theorize.... they're points which are consistent with the Civil War. Though, of course, it may not be from that era. And, I don't see the buses as mentioned before.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 03:22 am
Surprise, surprise . . .
 

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