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Mon 16 Aug, 2004 02:24 pm
:wink: You'd think that if George W. Bush and the Republicans were machine-gunning themselves in the foot by not condemning the Swift Vet ad (put together by private citizens, not the GOP, by the way), the Democrats would be saying "Let the GOP destroy themselves with this." But no... Dems are throwing everything they've got at it.
Quote:MOVEON VS. SWIFTVETS [Byron York]
MoveOn.org's political action committee has released a new TV ad condemning the ad now being aired by the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The script of the MoveOn spot is as follows:
OPEN ON THE YOUNG GEORGE BUSH IN NATIONAL GUARD UNIFORM.
ANNOUNCER: George Bush used his father to get into the National Guard, and...
CUT TO BUSH'S NATIONAL GUARD MEDICAL FORM BEING STAMPED WITH "FAILURE TO APPEAR".
ANNOUNCER: ...when the chips were down, went missing.
CUT TO SHOT OF TV SHOWING "SWIFT BOAT" SPOT, THEN WORDS APPEAR ACROSS SCREEN, "FALSE ADVERTISING".
AUDIO
ANNOUNCER: Now, he's allowing false advertising that attacks John Kerry...
CUT TO FOOTAGE OF A YOUNG JOHN KERRY IN VIETNAM.
ANNOUNCER: ...a man who asked to go to Viet Nam and who served with dignity and heroism.
CUT TO HALF SCREEN PICTURE OF JOHN McCAIN. HIS WORDS APPEAR ON SCREEN NEXT TO HIS PICTURE.
ANNOUNCER: Here's what a true Republican war hero has to say about the anti-Kerry ad: "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable...I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."
CUT TO SHOT OF BUSH AND CLOSING DISCLAIMER COPY. ANNOUNCER: George Bush: Take that ad off the air. MoveOn PAC is responsible for the content of this advertisement.
MoveOn says it has purchased air time for the ad to run for one week in each of the markets in which the original Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ad ran.
Source
MOVE ON- SWIFT VETS
murder by proxy
Be careful Brand X, I don't believe the Democrats officially endorse MoveOn.Org anymore than the GOP endorse SBVT...
MoveOn.Org likes to spread their propaganda and they have wealthy donors funding their propaganda.
Move On and SwiftVets should join forces. Someone has to make a buck off this election.
McGentrix wrote:Be careful Brand X, I don't believe the Democrats officially endorse MoveOn.Org anymore than the GOP endorse SBVT...
MoveOn.Org likes to spread their propaganda and they have wealthy donors funding their propaganda.
George Soros is the guy who puts forward all or most of their money. This coming from a guy who thinks the whole world should be socialist, and him it's leader.
If move on was smart, it would state the simple facts of the matter about the ad.
None of them actually served WITH Kerry, all those that did endorse him.
And as O'Reilly put it... "I believe Jim Rassmann when he says that Kerry saved his life by pulling him out of a Vietnam river while under fire. Rassmann is a former Green Beret, a former police officer and a longtime registered Republican until earlier this year. If he says John Kerry is a hero, nobody should doubt it. Rassmann has earned the right to be trusted, and insulting his testimony is way out of line."
When O'Reilly says stop with the war smears...Does that make it official?
Centroles wrote:If move on was smart, it would state the simple facts of the matter about the ad.
None of them actually served WITH Kerry, all those that did endorse him.
And as O'Reilly put it... "I believe Jim Rassmann when he says that Kerry saved his life by pulling him out of a Vietnam river while under fire. Rassmann is a former Green Beret, a former police officer and a longtime registered Republican until earlier this year. If he says John Kerry is a hero, nobody should doubt it. Rassmann has earned the right to be trusted, and insulting his testimony is way out of line."
As stated they
DID serve with him. They might not have been on the same boat but they were in boats that served with and around him. They have never said that they were on his boat. These swift boats never went off on their own, they always went off in groups of 3 or more. Planes, tanks and even other types of boats always go in groups, in case of break down or in case they come under attack. Most of the people who have come out against Kerry were his upper level of command who are responsible for him and people that served on the other boats. To say they don't know what happened is inncorrect because they were in fact there, and are not speaking from someone else's knowledge.
McGentrix wrote:Be careful Brand X, I don't believe the Democrats officially endorse MoveOn.Org anymore than the GOP endorse SBVT...
Bingo.
I agree that it's not the sort of thing I'd like to see (and I've contributed money to MoveOn for other ads before.) (As have a lot of people I know -- its support is not limited to a handfull of wealthy donors.) What I can't tell is how much effect the Swifties have had on people in general -- if they take the view that you espouse, Brand X, of the Republicans "machine-gunning themselves in the foot by not condemning it" -- or whether they bought it. If the latter, I don't know whether something on the same level will effectively counter the smeariness of the Swifties or not, whether it's necessary.
kickycan wrote:Baldimo wrote:As stated they DID serve with him. They might not have been on the same boat but they were in boats that served with and around him. They have never said that they were on his boat. These swift boats never went off on their own, they always went off in groups of 3 or more. Planes, tanks and even other types of boats always go in groups, in case of break down or in case they come under attack. Most of the people who have come out against Kerry were his upper level of command who are responsible for him and people that served on the other boats. To say they don't know what happened is inncorrect because they were in fact there, and are not speaking from someone else's knowledge.
Bullshit.
Disprove it. I have given my proof where is yours? If you look at the records you will see that all of his commanders are against him. That includes his fellow swift boat commanders as well as those that were above him. Are you saying that the people who were in charge of Kerry have no creditibilty? Here is a picture that Kerry himself has used.
Band of Brother
Baldimo wrote:kickycan wrote:Baldimo wrote:As stated they DID serve with him. They might not have been on the same boat but they were in boats that served with and around him. They have never said that they were on his boat. These swift boats never went off on their own, they always went off in groups of 3 or more. Planes, tanks and even other types of boats always go in groups, in case of break down or in case they come under attack. Most of the people who have come out against Kerry were his upper level of command who are responsible for him and people that served on the other boats. To say they don't know what happened is inncorrect because they were in fact there, and are not speaking from someone else's knowledge.
Bullshit.
Disprove it. I have given my proof where is yours? If you look at the records you will see that all of his commanders are against him. That includes his fellow swift boat commanders as well as those that were above him. Are you saying that the people who were in charge of Kerry have no creditibilty?
Yes. They are a bunch of people who are pissed off that he came back from vietnam and spoke out against the war. Do they have any credibility? None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. ZERO.
How is it that the commanders have no credibility but the people who served with him do? Could it be because you don't want to know the truth of the matter? I think this is the case. Of course none of this would be happening if Kerry wouldn't have talked it so much, and used it as a case for his non-election.
Baldimo wrote:How is it that the commanders have no credibility but the people who served with him do? Could it be because you don't want to know the truth of the matter? I think this is the case. Of course none of this would be happening if Kerry wouldn't have talked it so much, and used it as a case for his non-election.
Could it be that you want so badly to believe them because of your own bias? Hmmm...think about it.
McGentrix wrote:Be careful Brand X, I don't believe the Democrats officially endorse MoveOn.Org anymore than the GOP endorse SBVT...
MoveOn.Org likes to spread their propaganda and they have wealthy donors funding their propaganda.
Word.
I would have liked to see a similar ad from the Kerry camp, minus the suggestion that George Bush is responsible for the ad, and minus the accusation that Bush used his father to get into the National Guard, which is questionable at best.
Baldimo wrote:McGentrix wrote:Be careful Brand X, I don't believe the Democrats officially endorse MoveOn.Org anymore than the GOP endorse SBVT...
MoveOn.Org likes to spread their propaganda and they have wealthy donors funding their propaganda.
George Soros is the guy who puts forward all or most of their money. This coming from a guy who thinks the whole world should be socialist, and him it's leader.
Prolly paid for it with a Bush tax cut.
kickycan wrote:Baldimo wrote:How is it that the commanders have no credibility but the people who served with him do? Could it be because you don't want to know the truth of the matter? I think this is the case. Of course none of this would be happening if Kerry wouldn't have talked it so much, and used it as a case for his non-election.
Could it be that you want so badly to believe them because of your own bias? Hmmm...think about it.
I might be biased but I have to tell you that I beleive them because there are so many of them. It is easier to beleive the word 11 or 12 people over the word of 8 or 9. It is also easier to do because they were responsible for his orders and his missions.
They were the leadership not the men in the boat.
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