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Stem Cell Battles

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:37 pm
Quote:
I am inferring from your post that Bush has indeed only banned federal money from being used on anything but the existing line of embryonic stem cells and that research can still be done using other lines of embryonic stem cells as long as it is not funded by federal money. Am I correct in my understanding of your post?


You are correct. This leads to problems, but I've already written about the effects.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:38 pm
I see it as a fine opportunity for scientific researchers in other countries to gain a lead over the U.S. It will also mean good researchers will want to travel to other countries where they can be supported in their research. And I think that's a good idea - mixing it up in the scientific community can only be better for everyone. Things can get a little in-bred and political if only a few labs are doing research in certain areas.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:38 pm
One wonders if McG is an actual "scientist" or he just slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

(My apologies to those who haven't seen one of those ubiquitous ads.)
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:39 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
One wonders if McG is an actual "scientist" or he just slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

(My apologies to those who haven't seen one of those ubiquitous ads.)


Does this add anything to the conversation, or are you just being an impudent *****?
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:42 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
I am inferring from your post that Bush has indeed only banned federal money from being used on anything but the existing line of embryonic stem cells and that research can still be done using other lines of embryonic stem cells as long as it is not funded by federal money. Am I correct in my understanding of your post?


You are correct. This leads to problems, but I've already written about the effects.

Cycloptichorn


Thanks Cy. Just wanted to make sure I had this right. I don't like forming my opinions on something unless I am sure of the facts.

(I was going to add "unlike some on A2K", but thought better of it. It would probably start a discussion about whether more repubs or dems do this, causing me to start pulling out what hair I have left on my head. :wink: )
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:44 pm
Stemcells could correct that baldness...
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:46 pm
McGentrix wrote:
D'artagnan wrote:
One wonders if McG is an actual "scientist" or he just slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

(My apologies to those who haven't seen one of those ubiquitous ads.)


Does this add anything to the conversation, or are you just being an impudent *****?


A little of both, I guess...
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:51 pm
Cy, you stated earlier that "there is a good amount of evidence that Stem Cells can be obtained from Bone Marrow and also from certain types of adult human tissue, as well as from Placental and umbilical tissue." Is there anything keeping your fellow GS from obtaining the stem cells he needs for himself? For example, could I go to a university and say "I want to donate some stem cells?" Could they take them? Can I give them?
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:52 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Stemcells could correct that baldness...


Aw well, if that's the case................


Laughing
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 12:57 pm
JP, yes, the federal "ban" only relates to embryonic stemcells. It doesn't effect research on animal stem cells either.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 01:16 pm
McG brings up a good point that animal stem cells are not banned. There is a lot of research being done in that field specifically.

Quote:
For example, could I go to a university and say "I want to donate some stem cells?" Could they take them? Can I give them?


Unfortunately, it isn't that easy.

Much of the problem with stem cells is that embryonic stem cells are, apparently, full of potential to become different types of cells depending on the environment in which they are placed. Adult stem cells, while they do exist, don't seem to show the same amount of flexibility and are generally considered inferior to embryonic lines.

When doing research on stem cells it is important to note that a 'line,' or strain, of cells has to be pretty well-known and well-spread for scientific review to be available. For example; Stanford university, let's say, finds out some interesting aspects of a certain line of stem cells and someone writes up a paper on it, submits and has it published in a respective journal.

If Stanford had these lines thanks to private funding (I.E. non-Bush approved stem cell lines) then it becomes very difficult for a stringent scientific review to take place re: the findings of Stanford's expiriment. Why? Many colleges and Universities would not be able to afford said cell line; after all, they can't use public money to purchase samples, so they can't do any review on it without private funding (which can be paltry compared to gov't grants.) This slows down our ability to review research and put it's findings into applicable science which could benefit a large amount of people.

So, while I applaud your willingness to help the research, I doubt that any meaningfull studies could be done on the relatively small amount of adult stem cells you proose to donate. Great idea, though!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 01:39 pm
So I guess the question is where do we get the embronic stem cells from?

It is one thing to use discarded fetuses that would just go to waste (although some people have problems even with this) and another to actually "grow" fetuses for the purpose of research. How old do we allow them to get?

In McG's link (http://stemcells.nih.gov/) question #3 under FAQ's/Basic Questions states that "Pluripotent stem cell lines have also been developed from fetal tissue obtained from fetal tissue (older than 8 weeks of development)." How much older that 8 weeks is my question.

Later under Health Care Questions (#3 again) it states that "Pluripotent stem cells, while having great therapeutic potential, face formidable technical challenges. First, scientists must learn how to control their development into all the different types of cells in the body. Second, the cells now available for research are likely to be rejected by a patient's immune system. Another serious consideration is that the idea of using stem cells from human embryos or human fetal tissue troubles many people on ethical grounds."

If fetuses over 8 weeks are needed to produce pluripotent stem cells, and they have the greatest potential, what is keeping us from growing a fetus to over 10 weeks to see what kind of cells we can get then? If we find more potential there why not 12 weeks? You see where I am going with this.

Where do we get the cells and where do we stop?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:03 pm
I see where you are going with this. The 'slippery slope' argument.

I agree that great sensitivity is needed in finding the appropriate sources for these stem cells. The hope of scientists right now is in finding self-sustaining strains, that would need no new material to be donated in order to be studied/utilized.

But we have to FIND those strains first, and they are rare - for example, there is a strain of human skin cells (I believe called HEPA cells) which are used all over the world, which have curious properties which allow them to replicate basically forever given the right conditions. This strain came from the skin of a lady back in 1955 or something like that.

We were damn lucky to stumble on to it. A strain of stem cells like that would be worth way more than gold to the scientific community.

Nuclear research is dangerous as hell; it has the potential to kill tons of people and absolutely ruin the environment; but we've decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. We just have to be real careful. Hopefully we can get to Fusion, soon, so that it will be safer and cleaner. But we would never get there without lots of research.

Stem cells are the same. The research is very dangerous, not in the same way as Nuclear but just as important; but the benefits outweigh the risks. We just have to be real careful. Hopefully, we will reach a point soon where we won't need to use Embryonic material. But we could never get there without lots of research.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:06 pm
How about we use what we have and demonstrate that something can be done with stem cells before we start a wholesale slaughter of embyos?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:47 pm
Your 'wholesale slaughter of embryos' is a laughable and unrealistic position, McG... don't try to demonize the science because you are anti-abortion.

Every time someone tries to defend Bush's position on this issue from logical grounds, they always revert back to an anti-abortion stance, because as much as they hate to admit it, that is what their argument is based upon...

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:52 pm
Really? and to think that I am not even anti-abortion.
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:55 pm
Not so much an argument... more of a question that should be asked at some point. Interesting stuff - cells that replicate like that. Sounds like the answer to me.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:56 pm
McGentrix wrote:
How about we use what we have and demonstrate that something can be done with stem cells


link


this looking good? not all the way there, but promising.

Quote:
Pancreas Could Harbor Stem Cells
-- Robert Preidt


MONDAY, Aug. 23 (HealthDayNews) -- Individual cells in the pancreas that are capable of producing insulin-producing beta cells have been identified in adult mice by University of Toronto scientists.

The discovery of these potential pancreatic stem cells could prove important for diabetics who take insulin to compensate for defective pancreatic islets, which are made up mostly of beta cells. Pancreatic islets release insulin to help regulate blood sugar levels in the body.

"People have been intensely searching for pancreatic stem cells for a while now, and so our discovery of precursor cells within the adult pancreas that are capable of making new pancreatic cells is very exciting," researcher Simon Smukler, from the university's department of medical genetics and microbiology, said in a prepared statement.

The next step in their research, he added, is to prove that these precursor cells really are stem cells.

The study was published Aug. 22 in the online edition of the journal Nature Biotechnology.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:57 pm
That's perfect! It doesn't even involed embryonic stem cells!
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2004 02:59 pm
Best of all, it's happening in Canada. The U.S. doesn't have to be involved.
0 Replies
 
 

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