8
   

How to know the true God

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:00 pm
@neologist,
You're rationalizing what's said. http://biblehub.com/romans/10-9.htm
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Psalm 37:11 applies to all. In fact Jesus quoted it at Matthew 5:5.
Christians have a different covenant, but it doesn't change God's purpose for the earth.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:19 pm
@neologist,
That's very funny! Meek? LOL
meek
mēk/Submit
adjective
quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.
"I used to call her Miss Mouse because she was so meek and mild"
synonyms: submissive, yielding, obedient, compliant, tame, biddable, tractable, acquiescent, humble, deferential, timid, unprotesting, unresisting, like a lamb to the slaughter; More

Sounds more like Ignorant, Naive, Stupid.....
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
No rationalization needed if one understand simple concepts. God creates light on the first day, then creates the light producing objects, the sun and stars, on the fourth day. If you have any understanding of LOGIC, it's self-explanatory.

Since I didn't say this the first time the subject came up I'll add it now.

Another plausible explanation is that the light spoken of on day 1 was not the sun but that of creation (the Big Bang). It was so bright that we see the residue of it even today, the red shifted light we now call the Cosmic Background Radiation.

While these details can be of some interest, it's really only the philosophical issues that are of importance regarding God, bible, etc.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Meek, in the Bible, also means 'teachable'.
As in 'willing to be taught'.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:25 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Then where do you get the justification for telling me I don't know various things about God? How do you know my claims are arbitrary unless you know better? I make my claims based on going directly to God.

The reason your claims are arbitrary is not because I know better. They are arbitrary because there is no biblical support for your idea that the god's gift of free will is an "on again, off again" kind of thing. When this is pointed out to you, rather than acknowledge this lapse in reason, you respond by assuring me that your assessment is based on the fact that you go directly to god. Can you see the self-serving nature of the intentions behind your refusal to acknowledge the contradictory nature of your interpretation of free will?
Quote:
As far as 'projecting my own sense of logic onto the mind of God' , that would be consistent with being created in his image. I see nothing wrong or contradictory about that.

I do. Didn't the god itself say: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"?

Has the god changed his stance on that issue?
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I see this phenomenon in my siblings who are christians. They're able to rationalize the inconsistencies of the bible. They're not dummies. My older brother is an attorney, my younger brother is a doctor, and my sister is an RN.
I've seen these inconsistencies early in my childhood, and determined that the religion of the christian god can't be what they claimed.

And when there is no rationale for holding onto contradictions, there is always the default position which allows them to claim that "the god says that I am right. It told me so itself."
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:47 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:

The reason your claims are arbitrary is not because I know better. They are arbitrary because there is no biblical support for your idea that the god's gift of free will is an "on again, off again" kind of thing. When this is pointed out to you, rather than acknowledge this lapse in reason, you respond by assuring me that your assessment is based on the fact that you go directly to god. Can you see the self-serving nature of the intentions behind your refusal to acknowledge the contradictory nature of your interpretation of free will?
Wern't you the one that recently said I was the one who said we have the gift of free will, not you? If you don't think we have it, why argue the exact nature of it? I do think we have it but it is not absolute. God will not let us use it to subvert his main objective.

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"As far as 'projecting my own sense of logic onto the mind of God' , that would be consistent with being created in his image. I see nothing wrong or contradictory about that."


I do. Didn't the god itself say: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"?

Has the god changed his stance on that issue?

Two reasons why there is no contradiction here.
First is that we start out life knowing almost nothing. An adult could legitimately say to the child that same scripture, but it doesn't mean the child is an alien specie, unable to eventually grasp the same things the adult can.

Second, we are told we cannot enter his realm unless we be born again. And we can be born again.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 02:57 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
God will not let us use it to subvert his main objective.

Then we don't have free will. But I would be interested in you giving an example of how I might subvert the god's main objective.
Quote:
First is that we start out life knowing almost nothing. An adult could legitimately say to the child that same scripture, but it doesn't mean the child is an alien specie, unable to eventually grasp the same things the adult can.

I don't see how what you are saying detracts from, or changes the meaning of, the word of the god when it says, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"? Who do you think it was talking to?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 03:00 pm
@Glennn,
There are always the different cultural religions that affects children. They are brainwashed to last their life time.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 04:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This reminds me of an incident from when I was five years old. My older sister, Carol, who was fourteen, told me that the Tooth Fairy was, in fact, mom. I was young, but I remember my response. All thought stopped, and I stood there thinking about whether it was possible that it was my mom. In our house, you put your tooth in a glass of water and then put the glass on the kitchen window sill. In the morning, the tooth was gone, and there was a dime at the bottom of the glass. Took me about ten seconds to determine that it could easily be done by mom. So, I went to her and asked if there was really a Tooth Fairy or if she was the one taking the tooth and putting the dime in the glass. She didn’t answer right away, and she had a strange look on her face. I’d seen the look before. Something was up; she was hiding something.

Without looking at me, she finally said, “Did somebody tell you that there wasn’t a Tooth Fairy?”

I said, “Yeah, Carol told me it was you.”

“Well she’s wrong,” she said. “Now go tell her I want her.”

I went outside and found Carol and told her that mom wanted her. A little later, Carol came to me and said that she was kidding about mom being the Tooth Fairy. I noticed that she was quite subdued, her eyes downcast. It was obvious that she had been yelled at . . . or hit. I realized right then that there was no Tooth Fairy.

And then I found out about the Easter Bunny, and then Santa Claus. On the up side, I learned to not believe everything I was told--not even if it was my mother who told me. Funny thing is that, even after all that, it still took a lot of years before I decided I was being lied to about the existence of the biblical god. I attribute this lag in the application of critical thinking skills when it came to the Almighty to the fact that, unlike the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus, the adults were really playing this one to a tee. Every Sunday since the day I was born, lots and lots of people filled churches, sang songs, and talked to God, and all while holding their sacred book. And even if you stayed home instead of going to church, there were religious programs all morning on most of the TV stations. There was no escape!

But like I said, the upside is that I learned that, despite who it is that tells you something is true, or how many people believe it, it just might turn out to be bullshit. So, even if the Pope--especially if the Pope--tells you something, think twice, if not three times.

Proving to yourself that Santa Claus doesn’t exist is easy once you reach a certain age. The logistics alone is proof that something doesn’t add up. Even assuming that his sleigh gets better than 250,000 miles per rum-pum-pum-pum, we know that it would have to be the size of Texas to accommodate the number of presents it would have to carry. And then there’s the issue of what kind of engine it would take just to get it off the ground, to say nothing of propelling it to every household, what with the stop and go aspect of such a widespread delivery route.

Proving that the god doesn’t exist is a little trickier. It’s gifts are not physical. And if you ask for something and don’t get it, the default position of believers is that you must have fallen short of the god’s favor, and are therefore unworthy of having your need filled.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 04:45 pm
@Glennn,
I had to laugh, because you thought much deeper into this subject than most. But, thanks for sharing. I enjoyed your story.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 04:59 pm
@Glennn,
Ah! I see the problem. You were psychologically abused from an early age forever altering your view of existence :-)
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 05:12 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
But I would be interested in you giving an example of how I might subvert the god's main objective.

Those examples are exceedingly rare , even in Old Testament days (as were those miracles you object to).
If the expression of free will threatens the survival of God's main objective - Poof!, there goes your right to act on it. Like in the case of the flood, Red Sea parting, etc. With the widely spread population of those who follow him around the world today, those situations are probably non existent.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 06:11 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
If the expression of free will threatens the survival of God's main objective - Poof!, there goes your right to act on it.

There is no such thing as something that is free, yet comes with conditions--conditions such as a death sentence for choosing "freely." For I say unto you: Will is free, or it is not.

Also, perhaps this would be a good time for you to expound on just what the main objective of the god is; and more importantly, how it is that you and I have come to possess the power to threaten the survival of this objective. Who dost thou think thou art?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 06:23 pm
@Glennn,
I love art. Have visited the National Gallery in London, the Louvre in Paris, The Prado in Madrid, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC, MOMA and the Asian Art Museum in San Francisco, and many smaller galleries in the US.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 09:11 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
Ah! I see the problem. You were psychologically abused from an early age forever altering your view of existence :-)
No tooth fairy . . .
Hence . . .
No God . . .
Makes sense . . .
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 09:23 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
No tooth fairy . . .
Hence . . .
No God . . .
Makes sense . . .

Oh no! You're confused as to the meaning of my story. The point to my story, which your belief has blinded you to, is that there is an equal amount of evidence for both. It's like a parable, but better! Now do you understand?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 09:44 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
. . . Also, perhaps this would be a good time for you to expound on just what the main objective of the god is; and more importantly, how it is that you and I have come to possess the power to threaten the survival of this objective.
Main Objective:
Quote:
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28)
Do we possess the power to threaten . . .?
Threaten, perhaps. Succeed, no.
Quote:
No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. (Isaiah 54:17)
Glenn wrote:
Who dost thou think thou art?
Rolling Eyes
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Mar, 2016 09:48 pm
@neologist,
Ever hear of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
 

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