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Bush: Now Wouldn't Admit Himself Into Yale

 
 
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:37 am
Bush Backs Ending Admission Preferences for Children of Alumni
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
(NY Times: registration required)

Published: August 7, 2004

WASHINGTON, Aug. 6 - President Bush told a convention of 5,000 minority journalists on Friday that colleges should not give preferences for admission to the children of alumni, a position that put him at odds with his own history at Yale University.

Mr. Bush made his remarks at the Washington Convention Center in response to a question from Roland S. Martin, a syndicated columnist and a member of the National Association of Black Journalists, about whether colleges should give preferences to applicants, commonly called legacies, whose parents or grandparents attended the same institution.

"So the colleges should get rid of legacy?" Mr. Martin asked Mr. Bush at a question-and-answer session that followed the president's address to the convention.

"Well, I think so," said Mr. Bush, who is a son, grandson and also a father of Yale graduates. "Yeah. I think it ought to be based on merit."

Mr. Bush said that he assumed Mr. Martin had brought up the issue because of the president's Yale legacy, but Mr. Bush also joked that "in my case, I had to knock on a lot of doors to follow the old man's footsteps." Mr. Bush apparently meant that he had to work hard to succeed.

Mr. Bush was questioned in the context of a 2003 Supreme Court decision that preserved affirmative action in college admissions by upholding the system of the University of Michigan's law school, which considered race as only one factor in admissions. At the same time, the court ruled that a formulaic racial point system used by Michigan's undergraduate school was unconstitutional. Mr. Bush opposed both policies, calling them thinly disguised quota systems.

Supporters of affirmative action have long said that legacy admissions are effectively affirmative action for whites, and that anyone who opposes affirmative action as special treatment should be intellectually consistent by opposing legacies as well. Mr. Bush appeared to embrace that argument on Friday when he said, in the context of legacies, that there should not be "a special exception for certain people in a system that's supposed to be fair."

Mr. Bush made his comments about legacies at the end of a speech that was coolly received and at one point interrupted by a heckler who shouted, "Shame on you for your lies." The man was removed from the room, and organizers of the conference said that he was not a member of any of the black, Hispanic, Native American or Asian-American journalists' organizations that are taking part in the convention....
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JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:47 am
Re: Bush: Now Wouldn't Admit Himself Into Yale
joefromchicago wrote:
Mr. Bush also joked that "in my case, I had to knock on a lot of doors to follow the old man's footsteps." Mr. Bush apparently meant that he had to work hard to succeed.


Yah. Right.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 12:55 pm
He would have to make a joke out of it because there really isn't anything one can take seriously from this man.
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CerealKiller
 
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Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 01:32 pm
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Anyways there's nothing wrong with Nassau Community College.
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Scrat
 
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Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:13 pm
Just curious, but has anyone claimed that Bush got into Yale on a legacy exception? Anyone got a citation that purports to offer evidence of same?
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:15 pm
Look at the guy.
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kickycan
 
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Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:20 pm
I just assume that he did, because of his complete lack of any communication and or articulation skills.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:34 pm
Scrat wrote:
Just curious, but has anyone claimed that Bush got into Yale on a legacy exception? Anyone got a citation that purports to offer evidence of same?

LINK
(excerpt)

The president never released his high-school grades from Andover -- an elite New England prep school that his father had also attended -- or his SAT scores. But several years ago, The New Yorker got hold of Bush's Yale records and discovered that he scored a 566 on the verbal SAT and a 640 on the math SAT -- 180 points below the median score for his Yale classmates.

From what is known about Bush's academic performance at Andover, it is doubtful that he would have been admitted to Yale unless his father (at the time a Texas businessman running for the U.S. Senate in a race he eventually lost) and grandfather (Prescott Bush, a former Republican U.S. senator who represented Connecticut from 1952 to 1962) had been Yalies (from, respectively, the classes of 1948 and 1917). In fact, as a student, Bush studied in the Yale library's Prescott Walker Bush Memorial Wing.

Back then, Yale's student body was disproportionately made up of white, upper-class students from the nation's most elite prep schools. But without a Yale legacy, even a student from the most select private high school needed excellent grades and SAT scores to get in. Like other Ivy League colleges, Yale at the time had its own criteria for "diversity." It looked for students with strong athletic abilities or special skills such as musical or theatrical talent, as well as students from different parts of the country. These non-legacy students had to meet Yale's basic academic standards, of course, though the college no doubt rejected plenty of one-dimensional students who may have had higher grades and SAT scores but lacked other qualities Yale was looking for. (At the time, however, Yale made little effort to recruit minorities. In the fall of 1964, there were only 28 African-American students out of 4,093 undergraduates.)

Other than being a legacy, Bush had no qualities that would have gotten him into Yale. Had he been a National Merit Scholar finalist, an outstanding athlete or actor or editor of the Andover newspaper, or had he perhaps organized his fellow students to tutor underprivileged kids, we probably would know by now. In fact, he was a mediocre student -- he never made the honor roll -- and demonstrated no particularly outstanding talents to warrant being admitted to Yale. He was head cheerleader during his senior year, organized the school's stickball league and played baseball, basketball and football. But, unlike his father, who was an outstanding baseball player, W. was not a star athlete, and certainly not good enough to be recruited by Yale's coaches. Perhaps Yale was looking for students from west Texas to add some cultural and regional diversity, but, if so, why accept a kid from Midland, Texas, who had attended prep school in Massachusetts?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:41 pm
Scrat wrote:
Just curious, but has anyone claimed that Bush got into Yale on a legacy exception? Anyone got a citation that purports to offer evidence of same?


do a quick google search - it's all over the place

Quote:
George W. Bush is the poster child for affirmative action. He attended prep school at Andover Academy because his father was an alumnus. He didn’t get good grades at Andover but got into Yale because the Bushes were alumni there as well.
linkSeems Ted Kennedy was also a legacy admission.

Quote:
It is common knowledge that President Bush was not much of a student. Although the facts of his lack of academic distinction--at Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass., Yale University and Harvard Business School--are well known, few people have stopped to ask a seemingly obvious question: How did someone with mediocre grades get admitted to two of this nation's most prestigious universities? With respect to Yale, the answer is plain. George W. Bush was admitted to Yale because his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, and his grandfather, Prescott Bush, were prominent alumni.

Giving preferential treatment to the children of alumni is standard practice at most elite institutions of higher learning. University officials claim these "legacy admittees" strengthen their schools by creating continuity across the generations and building a loyal alumni base.

link

Whacks of this sort of thing. I think Gore was also a legacy admission somewhere. It's the silver spoon way to go. Or was.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:18 am
ehBeth - With respect, two unsupported statements made in two clearly anti-Bush opinion pieces are not evidence, any more than one person's assertion that Kerry is a waffler proves he's made of pancake flour.

Yale has set, specific criteria for admission. Dubya either met those on his own merits or didn't, and that should be a matter of record. Can anybody cite that record?

I consider it quite likely that Bush got in on a legacy deferrment, but I do not consider it proven simply because his detractors claim it.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:24 am
scrat you can't prove a lot of things you nonetheless know are true ya know......are you guys playing this weekend?
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:28 am
Scrat wrote:
Yale has set, specific criteria for admission. Dubya either met those on his own merits or didn't, and that should be a matter of record. Can anybody cite that record?

Yale refuses to release its records or explain its admissions decisions (and, I believe, it is legally prohibited from doing so without a student's permission). Bush, likewise, has refused to release his records. So if you're insisting on documentary evidence that Bush got into Yale solely as a legacy admission, Scrat, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. On the other hand, the fact that his SAT scores and his prep school grades fell well below the average for his incoming freshman class is, I think, strong circumstantial evidence.

Any doubts could be quickly dispelled by Bush authorizing the release of his educational records -- unless, of course, they've been lost or destroyed by the Pentagon.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:35 am
joefromchicago wrote:
[
Any doubts could be quickly dispelled by Bush authorizing the release of his educational records -- unless, of course, they've been lost or destroyed by the Pentagon.


maybe Barney ate them....with some Guldens Brown and a nice cold bee :wink: r....
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:51 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
maybe Barney ate them....with some Guldens Brown and a nice cold bee :wink: r....


http://www.whitehouse.gov/barney/images/barney-20040609.jpg

"Me and Dubya have a deal: he cleans up my messes and I clean up his messes -- if you get my drift."
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 08:54 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
scrat you can't prove a lot of things you nonetheless know are true ya know......are you guys playing this weekend?

I think people don't bother to try and prove things they already believe because they run the risk of finding out that what they believe to be true is wrong. It's much safer to keep quoting other people who are quoting other people. Whether we're talking about Bush, Kerry, or anyone else, I like to try to be clear about the difference between what I can reasonably claim to know, what I believe, and the rest of which I remain uncommitted.

We've got a guitarist out in Sturgis for the big Harley rally until next week. Our 1st birthday bash for the band is going to be Aug 21 at Ruckus in Raleigh.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 10:42 am
Scrat wrote:
ehBeth - With respect, two unsupported statements made in two clearly anti-Bush opinion pieces are not evidence,


do your own search, Scrat - it's all over the place. i picked one of them since it seemed to 'pick' equally on republican and democratic politicians. What I can pretty much guarantee is that you're not going to find much saying Bush got into any school based on his marks. Not even republican sources. I tried for about an hour yesterday to get proof of his academic qualifications. About the best I could find was something that said he got a high average mark in Japanese.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2004 11:42 am
ehBeth - It is not my responsibility to find support for the statements of others; it is my responsibility to offer support for my own statements. Were the evidence really so readily available, I am sure you would revel in the chance to show it to me. Your "go prove it for yourself" response is typical, and suggests that you lack any real evidence to support this point of view.

You are, of course, welcome to set your standards for what you "know" or "believe" as low as you choose. I will continue to set a higher standard.
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