15
   

Bernie wants a revolution! But let's not get crazy, right?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 01:02 pm
@snood,
I'm already ducking for cover from the rocks labeled 'racist bastard' but 'reparations' only brings up more racism. Should we have better racial impartiality here? Of course, But:

If you are going to look at monetary measures, you would have to balance the monetary advantages the descendants of slavery derive from being in this country vs their country of origin. That's true even given the injustices that exist now. As soon as you address that you're gonna get accused of advocating sending them back, a very racist position.

There should be a way to balance the current world in regards to African Americans but reparations is not it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 01:33 pm
@Leadfoot,
I doubt reparations for African Americans will go anywhere. There are too many against it. They can keep trying, but they'll end up frustrated.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:16 pm
Leadfoot said:
Quote:
If you are going to look at monetary measures, you would have to balance the monetary advantages the descendants of slavery derive from being in this country vs their country of origin.


I hear you. But it would be hard enough to try to put a dollar figure on the damage caused to generations of people from the subjugation, torture, rape and chattel slavery of their forebears. I have no idea now to do that frankly, much less how to put a dollar amount on the appropriate deduction because the ancestors were allowed to live here.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:29 pm
@snood,
Also, who will be required to pay? It's more complex than we can imagine.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed. Very, very complex. But the fact that an implementation plan would be incredibly complex (not to mention politically radioactive), isn't in and of itself a reason to never discuss the issue, don't you thinK?
Robert Gentel
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:35 pm
After tiring of snood's race baiting etc by private message I told him I would rather not continue talking to him by private message.

After receiving the following message from snood, I told him I would post a screenshot of the exchange if he continued to message me.

snood wrote:
Oh yeah, now there's someone I would want to exchange ideas with. I won't be judged by someone who obviously can't refrain from looking down his snotty nose and making haughty judgements about . You're nobody to be deciding who is better equipped to talk about anything. It's almost funny you try to judge my character because what comes across in black and white bytes from you is a bitter, entitled, officious, self-important ass. At the risk of being banned because that's the ONLY way you can exercise some control -I suggest you go get some affection from your furry kids, and if that doesn't work, go **** yourself.


He said to do so so here it is:

Screenshot 1: http://i.imgur.com/Jnd2Ds7.jpg

Screenshot 2: http://i.imgur.com/rY7pQOg.png

I don't think anyone should care about this but am posting it so when you see him posting (and deleting) comments today about me being "snide and scolding" to him you know what it is all about and because there is currently no way to block him from sending me further such messages and because others might make the same mistake of expecting an honest exchange on reparations with snood and be able to learn from my mistake.
snood
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:41 pm
I don't think anyone should care about this but the two engaged in the conflict, but Robert is determined to show himself to be the innocent victim of a big bad cyber bully, and not the antagonizing, judgmental ass he can't help being.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:43 pm
@snood,
I don't feel like a victim at all. I'm just glad you agreed to let me post the race-baiting crap you send in direct messages so that anyone who cares can see more about what kind of person you are. And, yes, I'm most certainly judgmental of your behavior. That goes without saying.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:44 pm
@snood,
I agree that subjects of this nature needs to be discussed in the open. The US is a very good country compared to others, but still lacks the leadership that prevents it from making big mistakes. Trump may never get elected because of his bigotry, but there are many Americans that think the same way he does. The potential is still there for people like him to become president if they're not outward with their bigotry.
People forget that early in our history, the Catholics, Irish, and Italians were discriminated against. On the West Coast, the Chinese and Japanese were discriminated against before and during WWII.
Yes, let's keep talking about this subject, and challenge all the bigots.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:48 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

I don't feel like a victim at all. I'm just glad you agreed to let me post the crap you send in personal messages so that anyone who cares can see more about what kind of person you are. And I'm most certainly judgmental of behavior of this ilk.


And I say again - you're nobody to be categorizing "what kind of person" I am. Your nature comes through in what you write too, so judge away - you're not so squeaky clean yourself.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 06:37 am
@snood,
For what it's worth I agree that reparations SHOULD be paid, but also agree that the logistics of it render it what is currently fashionably called a wicked problem ie apparently insoluble.



snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 07:09 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

For what it's worth I agree that reparations SHOULD be paid, but also agree that the logistics of it render it what is currently fashionably called a wicked problem ie apparently insoluble.





Well, I'm not sure that it SHOULD be paid. My position has always been that it is something that deserves a respectful conversation.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 07:30 am
The issue of reparations is certainly worth discussing, but it needs to be remembered that reparations are a form of relief. The problem with Ta-Nehisi Coates's Atlantic article is that he spent most of his time talking about discrimination against blacks. In contrast, he failed to acknowledge the enormous gulf between establishing that blacks have historically faced discrimination (a point that, I would have thought, was beyond dispute) and his proposed form of relief for that discrimination. Just because there has been discrimination doesn't mean that reparations are the only way to address that discrimination. It's like saying "we know there's plenty of flooding along the Mississippi, so let's focus on what sort of dams we'll be building."

Reparations, in other words, are one form of possible relief, but they're not the only form. That's where Coates went wrong. He assumed that, by establishing that blacks have endured discrimination, he thereby made the case for reparations. The damage and the form of relief are, however, not the same thing. If Coates realized that fact (and I'm not convinced that he did), he glossed it over as inconsequential. But the form of relief is the issue, and his refusal to address that issue was a serious failing.
DrewDad
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 09:02 am
@Robert Gentel,
Is it really necessary to pollute/derail this thread with your personal squabble?

If you want to make your squabble public, start a new thread about it and the lookie-loos can grab some popcorn and watch.
Robert Gentel
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 10:30 am
@DrewDad,
This is the thread that prompted him to start sending me messages and this is where I will respond to them. Your suggestion to make a new thread about it sounds less ideal.

In my experience with snood over the years that kind of race-baiting is how he typically responds to any sustained disagreement on this issue and future participants in this discussion can now decide if they want to get involved.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 11:14 am
The reason why Robert doesn't look at this as airing a personal squabble publicly is because Robert sees himself as a bystander rather than a participant in the conflict. So, he wanted to post our conflict publicly and prove how bad snood is. I think he sees it as sort of like a public service. I just see it as an arrogant ass who had an argument and needs an audience to reassure him he's right, and been treated badly.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 11:17 am
@joefromchicago,
As I've said before, exactly who is going to pay this reparation? All races except blacks? Only whites? How about mixed races with blacks? In this day and age, which white person is guilty of discrimination against blacks? (Or any other race.) How about reparations for Germans and Italians? How about the Irish?
There is no simple way to determine who pays and who gets the payment.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 11:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, it's complicated - that much is for sure. But it sounds to me like you think individual citizens would be asked to pay. Sort of like the person in line at the grocery store getting mad at the person paying with their food with food stamps, as if the food stamp person had gotten money right out of their purse instead of aid from the food stamp program.

(disclaimer # 50492 - I am not advocating for reparations here, and I don't have any better idea than the next person about how to implement it):

I'm thinking it would probably look more like a government check paid in increments or as a lump sum, coming from a program that resulted from a long (ugly, heated) battle that created a legislated entitlement.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 11:43 am
@snood,
Income taxes are paid according to tax laws. Revenues collected by the government are spent in many different ways. As you say, it would need to be legislated, but how it's distributed or used presents many problems of its own.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2016 11:48 am
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/29/2020 at 07:13:52