Is a New Political System Emerging in This Country?

@RABEL222,

I said I lived through that time. I am not naive, so stop smirking.

@ossobuco,

Somehow the assumption by Max that nothing will ever change in the good old USA strikes me as naive as well.

@Olivier5,

I am not saying that nothing will ever change.

I am just saying that the specific changes that this article alleges aren't really anything new. This article makes an extraordinary claim... that there are forces at work that will fundamentally change the course of American democracy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence-- this article fails to provide this.

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@maxdancona,

Good observation.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

This article makes an extraordinary claim... that there are forces at work that will fundamentally change the course of American democracy.

Why would you consider this an extraordinary claim? Change is not extraordinary, is it?

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@Olivier5,

This is the extraordinary claim that I don't believe is well supported.

Quote:

Certainly, something out of the ordinary is underway and yet its birth pangs, while widely reported, are generally categorized as aspects of an exceedingly familiar American system somewhat in disarray.

URL: http://able2know.org/topic/307576-1

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@maxdancona,

Alright, point well taken.

I still think a qualitative change is under way. It's not just in the US but it's spearheaded there. To put it bluntly, i see democracy as being corrupted by many internal forces, including the ones he cited eg big money and more, and losing ground worldwide. The demise of communism could have plaid a role, allowing capitalism to go back to its pre-new deal ways, characterised by high inequality and strong wealth concentration in the hands of a few.

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@Olivier5,

Inequality is alive and well, and there's not much anyone can change that scenario.

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@cicerone imposter,

Income inequality made a big comeback since the fall of the USSR, during the 90's and 2000's, and is now well entrenched. So this one change that's already "completed", done, historical; but two decades later, it has now huge consequences on politics, in the era of the superPACs.

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@Olivier5,

Some politicians talk about it, but nothing will ever come of it. As a national issue, it's complex, because different states, counties, and cities have different average income.

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@cicerone imposter,

I agree it's a done deal. I also think it's a game changer.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Ecclesiastes 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

3What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

5The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

7All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

8All things are full of labor; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

11There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

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I've been outspoken about my dissatisfaction with the two party system in this country and the general dysfunction/corruption in all three branches of gov't. I've long felt that the occupy movement and the tea party movement are flip sides of the same coin. Namely, that there's a deep problem at the core of our government and how it's run. The fact that DT became a republican in order to have a viable national campaign, that BS became a democrat for the same reason, and that they are both doing well (DT especially so) speaks volumes to the power of the party. Power that shouldn't exist, imo. The fact that two outsiders are doing so well speaks to the general dissatisfaction that voters have with them.

This article is about Trump's rise, but also addresses what I think is the main point of what hopefully will result in a new political system.

Quote:

On what Trump's rise says about the two major political parties

I think they're sort of walking on eggshells right now, and it goes back to this question about disintermediation. The two-party system has very much been dependent on the ability of party bosses to control the message, to control the money, to control who the candidates are from the top down. And the party that best understands that that world is no longer there is best going to flourish in this new environment.

I think in some ways Donald Trump is a creation of the Republican establishment's unwillingness to accept this new world.]

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@JPB,

The US democracy, with its winner takes all elections, favors a two party system. We have had two dominant parties (with a couple of minor ones thrown in during times of turmoil) since the time of Thomas Jefferson.

There is a simple mathematical explanation for this. In order to win a winner takes all election, you need to build the biggest coalition possible. If you don't like this biggest coalition, you need to form the second biggest coalition to oppose them. Any minor party (with no chance to win themselves) will either choose one of these two coalition, or they will remain small with no chance of winning.

You may not like this. But that is just how our system of democracy works.

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@JPB,

For quite a while, I've been saying (and more so, believing) that the US is headed for a political sea change due to the reasons you stated.

I think you're correct in your estimations that the one thing that the Trump and Sanders groups have in common is their utter contempt for corrupt politics as usual. These crowds are enormous and excited...about POLITICIANS. I've spoken to a multitude of people, who like me, have donated for the first time to a political campaign - and are HAPPY to do it. The dynasty candidates, Clinton and Bush, couldn't be more apt metaphors for this drama.

I wonder if people really think about how the impossibly wealthy, big name recognition candidate who has Wall Street in her back pocket and was leading as though she were the only one in the field is about to lose to an elderly, grumpy, agnostic, Socialist Jew, who refuses PAC money.

Think about it.
Something's very different.

I hope we see at least one party split. It looks like it'll be the Dems, and it may cause a loss this time. There is a deep division within the party; old party loyalists are refusing to donate to the DNC and calling for the dismissal of DWS. I've witnessed this division deepen over the months since Bernie's entrance into the campaign.

I don't think anything is going to be the same.

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I believe Moyers' essay is worth the re reading.

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I think the selection of the new DNC chief will be out canary in the coal mine. Will they remain Establishment or shift progressive?

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@Lash,

The American public has given up on Washington's promises; even Obama has not kept most of his promises. Campaign promises are defeating our politics, and it hasn't helped the average American that impacts them most; income has remained stagnant too long.
I think I read recently that the middle class in this country is shrinking. Some income go higher, but most go lower.

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Is a New Political System Emerging in This Country?

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