What will your reaction be if you are suspended?

@bobsal u1553115,

Nope, the logic is faulty and you know it. As much as you would wish to think that it won't happen to you, it CAN happen to you.

You said that Izzy got suspended for doing "things that other posters do daily". Therefore, you could be suspended for doing those things too...

One minute before their suspension, Izzy and Hawk could have said, like you're saying now: "If I did anything to get myself suspended, wouldn't I already be suspended?"

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

What Izzy did was respond to oralloy and layman by calling them "nazis" for some fascist crap they posted.

2 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

And you never did such a thing?

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Both of you don't speak for the site and are making yourselves look silly by warning each other about what might get each other banned when neither of you have any say in the matter.

3 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

I never pretended I had any say on the matter.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Let's see, ..... have I ever called anybody a "Nazi"? ..... hmmmm .... nope. I have pointed out that the covers of certain "humor" magazines certainly mirrored Nazi propaganda art by displaying bigoted references to to a major world religion. And I also said that murdering the artists of those covers was wrong and uncalled for.

Some people like to pick and choose what they want to hear, like when someone accuses someone else of claiming a third person had been "jailed" when the second person never, ever made that claim.

Are you ready to stop kicking this horse yet?

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Sorry. I will stop.

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

You never called anyone a Nazi? I know I did. Maybe it was on another forum though...?

2 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

Both of you don't speak for the site and are making yourselves look silly by warning each other about what might get each other banned when neither of you have any say in the matter.

An you Robert had created an interesting guessing game of what is or is not allowable an what might or might no get you ban.

There is a concept under the law that any law/rule must be clear to those who need to follow the law/rule in question.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_certainty

The legal system needs to permit those subject to the law to regulate their conduct with certainty and to protect those subject to the law from arbitrary use of state power. Legal certainty represents a requirement that decisions be made according to legal rules, i.e. be lawful. The concept of legal certainty may be strongly linked to that of individual autonomy in national jurisprudence. The degree to which the concept of legal certainty is incorporated into law varies depending on national jurisprudence. However, legal certainty frequently serves as the central principle for the development of legal methods by which law is made, interpreted and applied.[1]

Legal certainty is an established legal concept both in the civil law legal systems and common law legal systems. In the civil law tradition, legal certainty is defined in terms of maximum predictability of officials' behaviour. In the common law tradition, legal certainty is often explained in terms of citizens' ability to organise their affairs in such a way that does not break the law. In both legal traditions, legal certainty is regarded as grounding value for the legality of legislative and administrative measures taken by public authorities.[2]

Rule of law[edit]

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

I try not to use "nazi" too much, I think it trivializes Nazism, which, no doubt as Frenchman and a European must drive you nuts, the way Americans just love to throw that word around.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Moreover, for any punishment of one person to have a deterring effect on others, the verdict must be publicized rather than kept secret.

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@bobsal u1553115,

I too try to use it sparingly.

To be quite transparent, I have used the term "zionazi" in the past to describe extreme-right zionists...

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

An you Robert had created an interesting guessing game of what is or is not allowable an what might or might no get you ban.

There is a concept under the law that any law/rule must be clear to those who need to follow the law/rule in question.

I agree that it would be better for the rules to be publicly codified. They used to be years ago, and will be one day again.

There's only so much time in the day and codifying such rules is tedious work, when there is enough time to get around to it we will.

It's worth remembering that nobody gets paid to do this and it's a hobby for everyone. The limiting factor is resources (time and money mainly) and that there are literally thousands of things I can do to improve the community that I have not yet had time to do.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Maybe asking for a few more volunteers might be worth it?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

"zionazi"

Haven't heard that one yet, but it seems apt for a lot of folks.

1 Reply

I doubt it's just a matter of resources. For instance, resources cannot be the reason why the verdicts are not publicized (as they should be to have maximum effect on the rest of the membership). Having a thread where the suspensions would be noted would cost nothing...

But ambiguity has its advantages, and I am not saying this in a cynical way. It DOES have advantages, as any parent confronted with ambarassing questions from their kids would know. E.g. if I were in Robert's shoes I would not formalize the rules in much detail, as doing so would tie my hands.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

It does create quite a stir when used, though. To be fair, it's been used by some as a slur for ALL zionists, which is not my intention. I'm fine with moderate zionists.

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Maybe asking for a few more volunteers might be worth it?

We always are, the pool of people with high E.Q., participation rates AND a desire to do the thankless work is small. The pool of those people with the capacity to codify rules well is even smaller.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I doubt it's just a matter of resources. For instance, resources cannot be the reason why the verdicts are not publicized (as they should be to have maximum effect on the rest of the membership). Having a thread where the suspensions would be noted would cost nothing...

Actually it would have enormous costs in time. All this navel-gazing and explaining I'm doing is coming at a significant cost to my time (that would be better spent for A2K on development work on the new platform). Suspensions are not typically announced because each and every one would cause several dozen-man hours of navel gazing and debate about it. And while the transparency is helpful it inevitably just results in more people angry and upset.

Furthermore it causes situations where people start piling on the suspended user who is then motivated to break the suspension to speak for themselves and public humiliation is something that is better to avoid in general.

Publicly announced suspensions is by far the most labor-intensive way to go about it. I look forward to some communities trying this but am not going to be one of them. I have my reasons for the exceptions I've had but have almost always regretted it afterwards as the cost in time for the additional transparency has never once been worth the effort. A couple of people appreciate the effort but ultimately it cannot and will not please everyone so it has the affect of dragging the community down into navel-gazing and drawn out drama.

Quote:

But ambiguity has its advantages, and I am not saying this in a cynical way. It DOES have advantages, as any parent confronted with ambarassing questions from their kids would know. E.g. if I were in Robert's shoes I would not formalize the rules in much detail, as doing so would tie my hands.

Formalizing the rules is a good thing, it is hard to get right and obviously easier to use your judgement when things come up but the only reason there are not public formalized rules is because the rules are not formalized yet and because doing so is a lot of work.

I probably won't bother with doing it till the new platform, as the rules will be changing then again.

3 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

. . . All this navel-gazing and explaining I'm doing is coming at a
significant cost to my time (that would be better spent for A2K on
development work on the new platform) . . .

Yeah! Back to work, Robert!

0 Replies

What will your reaction be if you are suspended?

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