Americans no longer monopolize stupidity

Hmmmm. Let's consider changing "stupidity" to ignorance, shall we?

I remember telling my students once what my sixth grade teacher had observed about lice. That used to be a periodic thing, checking for lice, and it was considered a terrible insult.

She said: It's not a sin to get lice, but it's a sin to keep them.

I altered it to say, "Hey, kids. It's not a sin to be ignorant, but it's a sin to stay that way." That sorta got their attention.

teachers also weren't being sued or beaten up or shot.

But you were walking in knee deep snow to and from school too, uphill both ways...

Fox - like it or not, there are so many more choices available to today's kids with regards to information, recreation, or just about anything.

This comes down to technology making things more readily available to the masses.

The fact that you believe your highschool diploma would stand up against today's four-year degrees only confirms to me how out of touch you are in this discussion.

I agree with Jer. This is a rather ridiculous statement.

Cycloptichorn

Jer, this thread has been pretty devoid of the personal comments, please don't bring them in.

You're welcome to your opinions guys. But I went through my schooling and I also 'went through' the schooling my kids went through--the kids have college degrees and then some now. I think I've earned the right to hold the opinion I have even if it wasn't emphatically collaborated by my educator friends who are near my age.

McG,

Don't even bother striking that pose with me...



I never make things personal on here...I'm saying that it's obviously been awhile since Fox has been in school and she obviously hasn't been talking with the younger generation's university grads...

The knee-deep snow bit was a joke, as was evidenced by the

Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?
...Take a Look:

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. USA.
It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley
Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the
Salina Journal.

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per are, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of theRebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates:
1607
1620
1800
1849
1865

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono,super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd,cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane,fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced andindicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is theocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba,Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.

Note that the 8th graders in Salina Ks in 1895 had never heard of a calculator, much less a computer.

Your personal intelligence and learning is not something in which I am inclined to debate, as you certainly have shown no deficiencies there that I can see. But to compare a high school degree to a 4 year college degree is ludicrous.

I went to a challenging high school and a challenging college, and let me tell you, college was a hell of a lot harder, the information we were taught much more accurate to reality, logical and critical thinking was emphasized, etc....

As you haven't taken college yourself (by your own admission) you have no real way of comparing the two, other than your opinions about other's experiences. That is not sufficient grounds for you to be making statements like the one you did - you don't have the experience neccessary to make an accurate comparison.

Frankly, if you wish to consider yourself formally educated to a high degree, a high school diploma doesn't really cut it anymore. I realize you believe that you were held to a more rigorous standard; but there are topics in college classes you didn't even begin to touch on in HS, I guarantee....

Cycloptichorn

I will agree that on specific technical stuff like advanced math, chemistry, etc. you do get more in college than highschool. But you are comparing your highschool to your college - within less than half a decade yes? I am comparing a highschool education (from admittedly a very good small oil rich town school system) of a number of decades ago with a college education now. Certainly college graduates are going to know more about some stuff than I knew at HS graduation (or more than I know now for that matter) but all in all, kids in the first half century usually got a much better basic education than kids have gotten in the last half of the 20th Century.

And no, I don't have any statistics to post to back that up, but I would guess most of the older A2K members would agree with that. (At least those I haven't pissed off too badly. )

Well, I know the answers to some of these:

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
Let's see. There's Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Comic, Nixon...

3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
Verse: when it's as bad as it can get.
Stanza: he played the dumb Italian guy on "Taxi."

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
A hogshead shy of a furlong.

3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
More than you'll make in a year, granny!

4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
Including payoffs to the county board chairman?

9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per are, the distance around which is 640 rods?
A square farm? Is that where they raise square livestock?

10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
And make it out to "Cash."

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
Pre-Cambrian, Devonian, Pleistocene, Jurassic, Reaganesque.

2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
Hah! It's a trick question. Columbus never set foot in America.

5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
Well, there was this girl named Dorothy who had a little dog named Toto...

Orthography (Time, one hour)
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
Ooog. Mmrmph. Bleeeeh. How much more elementary do you want it?

4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
Duct tape. Chicken wire. Wadded up pieces of wet paper. Corn cobs.

Geography (Time, one hour)
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
Because GOD HATES KANSAS!

4. Describe the mountains of North America.
Tall. Hard. Pointy. I think one of them calls itself "Larry."

8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
Magic?

10. Describe the movements of the earth.
Well, there's the hokey-pokey...

Oh and Cyclop....where did you get the idea that I didn't go to college? I certainly never said that. My professors would be crushed.

And I learned what the inclination of the earth is too. I've forgotten, but I learned it.

The inclination of the earth is to think about going to have a beer, and to spin out of control. The sun keeps us in line . . .

Oh the sun is mass
Of incandescant gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where hydrogen gets built into helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees . . .

When I studied a second time, aged 35, I thought, how stupid all those 18-years old children were and asked my self, what they had learnt at school.

When I taught later at that very same university, I asked my self, what those stupid children were taught at school.

And then they explained it ... and co-professors reminded me of my age and my life experiences ... and that the older generation always glorifies their education.


And then I remembered, what my father me told about his school, and what his father (my grandfather) had told him about his school ... ... ...


I think nowthat every generation learnt the most and best they can and could - as occasion demanded and circumstances permitted.

[My grammar school final exams certainly equal a four year's college degree of today. :wink: ]

Jer writes


I agree Jer rarely gets unbearably snotty.

Actually I do talk with younger generation's university grads not even counting my own kids who are among those or my even younger neices and nephews who are in college now. My daughter-in-law has been slowly acquiring her degree for years now. But when one of these cannot tell me who Karl Marx was or why he is significant; when they have not been even exposed to the minds of John Locke or Adam Smith, I have to wonder what ARE they teaching in school these days?

The recent college grads at least can read and write. I have interviewed far too many highschool graduates who were not sufficiently literate to properly fill out a comprehensive employment application.

Then on the other hand you young-uns can run circles around me on computers and other high tech stuff.

Walter, I thought awhile before responding to your post. Is it faulty memory and experience that makes us remember our own youth and education as more impressive than it was? There's probably some truth to that, but after thinking about it, I remain convinced that schools aren't as good as they used to be for many reasons.

That in no way suggests people are not being educated, but the impressive records from the better private schools and home schoolers suggests the public schools, where most of the children go, are wanting. I don't blame it all on the schools either as it involves a plethora of issues including indoctrination from MTV, etc., sloppy or substandard parenting, community expectations, and interference by outside pressures.

I sure hope we find a way to turn it around soon though before we do any more damage to our kids.

Hearing deap in my inner ego - aka the black site of Walter :wink: - I would agree.

But since it's late at night, I rarely agree with you, Foxfyre, and I never listen to my black site ... :wink: