ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 07:17 pm
@Tuna,
scientism?

Have you heard of the word laboratory?
Tuna
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 07:22 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Have you heard of the word laboratory?

Sure. ?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 07:43 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Have you heard of the word laboratory?

If I wasn't such a kind, caring, touchy-feely gentleman, Jo, I might say:

I gotcho laboratory right here.

But I aint gunna say that, see?
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 07:52 pm
@layman,
Cute. Did you notice that Fox says the following is worth a 2 week suspension...Re Obama's speech

Quote:
Over on “Outnumbered,” Dash was asked her thoughts on Obama’s speech.

“I did not feel any better. I didn’t feel any passion from him,” she said. “I felt like he could give a **** — excuse me, like he could care less.”

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/news/fox-news-suspends-contributors-anti-obama-profanity-210700106.html

Allegedly the problem was the profanity, in spite of the fact that it was instantly retracted and apologized for. .

Someone else got the same treatment for calling him a pussy, which is on firmer ground in my opinion.

Best watch your step around here buddy, Robert says that the assholes are leaving. I would miss you.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 08:00 pm
@layman,
That's nice of you, try to keep it up. Priapism is next,

I genuinely do not understand people not knowing how science works while reviling it.

One of our best papers came from a complete surprise re our expectations.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 08:35 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
That's nice of you, try to keep it up. Priapism is next,


Priapism, it ROCKS, eh!?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 08:42 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
I genuinely do not understand people not knowing how science works while reviling it.


Well, Jo, ya know, I posted them long-ass excerpts from wiki to see if anyone was actually interested in discussing various "assaults on science" that have been made by academics and others.

It seems not. People just seem to want to make vague assertions about what science is, what it does, how it does it, etc., all while accusing everyone else of not knowin ****, but without any real substance being provided.

What else is new, I ask ya?
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 08:56 pm
@layman,
Quote:
I posted them long-ass excerpts from wiki to see if anyone was actually interested in discussing various "assaults on science" that have been made by academics and others.

I voted them up. I think you're basically right. I don't agree that the emotion surrounding global warming is all scientism, though. There have been reasonable people thinking of it in terms of Pascal's Wager: we don't know if we might be presently handing a terrible situation to our descendants. Why not err on the side of caution? You have to admit: altering the climate is big stuff.

I have other theories about where the emotion comes from. Anyway, amazingly this IQ2US debate is still up on youtube.


layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 09:17 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
There have been reasonable people thinking of it in terms of Pascal's Wager: we don't know if we might be presently handing a terrible situation to our descendants. Why not err on the side of caution?


How do you know that man-made "solutions" won't make it worse? Even IPCC lead writers say they don't really know. In my book, erring on the side of caution would be refraining from making drastic commitments to a "problem" that has not been shown to be serious.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 09:19 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
You have to admit: altering the climate is big stuff.


Not sure how you intended this, i.e., what you intended by it.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 09:23 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
I have other theories about where the emotion comes from.


Like what? I have trouble seeing it as much beyond a political issue where big money is at stake, fundamentally, and, for laymen, emotion stemming from ideological convictions.

Quote:
Anyway, amazingly this IQ2US debate is still up on youtube.


Haven't watched the vid, but why do you say it's "amazing?" The topic seems to be: is it a CRISIS, not, "does man contribute to CO2 in the atmosphere."
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 09:45 pm
@layman,
Quote:
How do you know that man-made "solutions" won't make it worse? Even IPCC lead writers say they don't really know. In my book, erring on the side of caution would be refraining from making drastic commitments to a "problem" that has not been shown to be serious.

Other than the idea of CO2 scrubbers, the only solution I've seen offered is to reduce our CO2 output. I don't see that happening. If we had a global government, it might be possible. We don't, though.

In the 22nd Century, there's going to be an energy crisis because the petroleum and natural gas will be gone (see the David Archer book I mentioned earlier). I see no signs that we're going to plan intelligently for that. Natural resource experts also claim that by the end of this century, one of the biggest problems facing our species will be drinkable water. Plan? None.

I wouldn't worry too much about drastic commitments.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 09:52 pm
@layman,
Quote:
Like what? I have trouble seeing it as much beyond a political issue where big money is at stake, fundamentally, and, for laymen, emotion stemming from ideological convictions.

Are there a lot of people around you who are upset about it?

Quote:
Haven't watched the vid, but why do you say it's "amazing?" The topic seems to be: is it a CRISIS, not, "does man contribute to CO2 in the atmosphere."

No, I said I was amazed that this video is available on youtube.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:01 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
Other than the idea of CO2 scrubbers, the only solution I've seen offered is to reduce our CO2 output. I don't see that happening. If we had a global government, it might be possible. We don't, though.


Well, you're saying quite a bit here, actually. I'll make a few comments:

1. When you refer to "the only solution," you are of course assuming that there is a problem which requires a "solution."

2. If you're trying to reduce CO2, for better or worse (and many have argued that, within limits, more CO2 would be very beneficial), why not just chop down some more tropical rain forests? That would do the trick. Funny that many of the environmentalists who oppose this do so in large part because we need the CO2 these forests provide.

3. There are many who see a "global government" as a solution, sho nuff. But they often have many other "problems" in mind when they advocate it. See some of the politicians I quoted who say it doesn't even matter if global warming is "phony" and "false," the proposed "solutions" are a great thing anyway. Words such as "justice" come to the forefront, eh?
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:18 pm
@layman,
Quote:
1. When you refer to "the only solution," you are of course assuming that there is a problem which requires a "solution."

Layman. Everything I've posted on this thread explaining the situation, and you ask me that? There is a potential problem.

Quote:
2. If you're trying to reduce CO2, for better or worse (and many have argued that, within limits, more CO2 would be very beneficial), why not just chop down some more tropical rain forests? That would do the trick. Funny that many of the environmentalists who oppose this do so in large part because we need the CO2 these forests provide.

Plants take in CO2. They put out O2.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:19 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
n the 22nd Century, there's going to be an energy crisis because the petroleum and natural gas will be gone (see the David Archer book I mentioned earlier). I see no signs that we're going to plan intelligently for that. Natural resource experts also claim that by the end of this century, one of the biggest problems facing our species will be drinkable water. Plan? None.



The only problem is that every damn predicts in the last hundreds years or so of running out of needed materials had turn out to be bullshit.

Our whole technology society should had ended in the late 1980s by the Club or Rome predictions in the early 1970s back by state of the art for the time computer models.

Those predictions of doom have a hell of a lot less impact for those who lifetimes had been long enough to had seen one predict of doom after another proven wrong.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 11:32 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Those predictions of doom have a hell of a lot less impact for those who lifetimes had been long enough to had seen one predict of doom after another proven wrong.


Yet it still remains true that politicians realize that one of the most successful tactics for gaining widespread approval of their agenda is to promise certain catastrophe if it is not implemented, eh? It's just a matter of convincing people of that "certainty," that's all. Not very difficult, as it turns out.

You don't have to be persuasive, offer compelling reasoning, or even be coherent when you're a preacher seeking ratification and approval from the choir.

You need only ask: "Can I get an 'amen?'" It will be immediately forthcoming.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:04 am
@Tuna,
Quote:
Plants take in CO2. They put out O2.


Exactly. CO2 is essential for growing crops and many other essential requirements for life.

Here's a simple, "for kids," explanation of the carbon cycle from the National Center for Atmospheric Research:

Quote:
The Carbon Cycle

All living things are made of carbon. Carbon is also a part of the ocean, air, and even rocks. Because the Earth is a dynamic place, carbon does not stay still. It is on the move!

In the atmosphere, carbon is attached to some oxygen in a gas called carbon dioxide.

Plants use carbon dioxide and sunlight to make their own food and grow. The carbon becomes part of the plant. Plants that die and are buried may turn into fossil fuels made of carbon like coal and oil over millions of years. When humans burn fossil fuels, most of the carbon quickly enters the atmosphere as carbon dioxide.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and traps heat in the atmosphere. Without it and other greenhouse gases, Earth would be a frozen world. But humans have burned so much fuel that there is about 30% more carbon dioxide in the air today than there was about 150 years ago, and Earth is becoming a warmer place. In fact, ice cores show us that there is now more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than there has been in the last 420,000 years


https://eo.ucar.edu/kids/green/cycles6.htm

The fact that is 30% more than 150 years ago is to be expected. It's been increasing ever since the last "mini-age ice age" ended. That doesn't mean it's "too much" or "too little," all by itself. From what I hear an increase in CO2 would go a long way toward increasing crop production and feeding the hungry world.

And if you look at the chart at that site, you will see that plant respiration puts a lot of CO2 back into the atmosphere. That's why it's a cycle. It doesn't only "put out O2," if that's what you're suggesting, Tuna.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:14 am
@layman,
Take note also that in the earth history there had been periods long long long before humans had any impacted on earth, co2 loading had been higher then it is now.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:30 am
@Tuna,
Quote:
Layman. Everything I've posted on this thread explaining the situation, and you ask me that? There is a potential problem.


"Potential" problem? I've posted a lot on this thread too. But nobody reads what I post, so I'll post this part again (so no one can read it again).

From what I hear, 95% of all "greenhouse gas" is water vapor. Of the remaining 5%, most is CO2. But of the total, less than 1/3 of 1% is from burning fossil fuel. The vast majority of CO2 in the atmosphere comes from plant and animal respiration.

Another thing I've posted before: They say that if current recommendations to "solve" the "problem" are implemented, it will cost every American $6750 PER YEAR in order to reduce global temperatures by about 1 tenth of one degree by the year 2050. I say, if that's the cost, and if that's what you think is absolutely necessary to avoid catastrophe (it aint), then, ****, chop down some forests, and leave me be.

BTW, since water vapor is by far the most prevalent "greenhouse gas," climatologists agree that cloud formation and patterns play an extremely important role in earth's climate. As far as I know, they also agree that these factors are "poorly understood."
0 Replies
 
 

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