6
   

The "prove you aren't a zombie" challenge

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 07:37 pm
@Tuna,
Good drugs, huh?

I think i'll pass, you have fun. Bye.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 07:45 pm
@Tuna,
???????????????????????????? nevermind, I'm out.
0 Replies
 
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 07:47 pm
@joefromchicago,
joe wrote:
A lot of people around here fall for crap like that, and I don't post much these days, so you may have better luck next time.

Then I'm honored that you responded. And that's as much honesty as you're going to get from me.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 07:48 pm
@Setanta,
OK. Bye.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 08:16 pm
@Tuna,
Welcome to A2K, rookie.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 08:53 pm
@Tuna,
Tuna wrote:
Then I'm honored that you responded.

You should be.

That being said, I had no problem with your avenue of inquiry, just with the manner that you posed your questions. Plenty of people have started threads challenging others to "prove me wrong!" while, at the same time, demonstrating that there's no possible way they can be convinced that they're wrong. It's a tiresome game that I've long ago decided to forgo.

Tuna wrote:
And that's as much honesty as you're going to get from me.

I'll keep that in mind.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2015 09:32 pm
@joefromchicago,
Right. When philosophy gets tiresome, I think that means you finally got it.

But notice that you lumped me together with a bunch of other people who I don't happen to be. You're saying I just followed some worn out formula like a p-zombie pursuing a programmed need to be right about something.

I can't prove to you that there's more to me than what you see. That's my private knowledge.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2015 07:44 am
@Tuna,
Quote:
Eliminative materialism says that all humans are essentially p-zombies.

And you believe what zombies tell you?
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2015 07:52 am
@Tuna,
Tuna wrote:
I can't prove to you that there's more to me than what you see. That's my private knowledge.

I'll keep that in mind as well.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2015 11:34 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
And you believe what zombies tell you?


Good question, Ollie. I don't care about what the zombies say. I wanna talk to the guy who programmed them to say that.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2015 03:35 pm
@Tuna,
According to my research, you can prove you aren't a zombie by eating salt
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2015 03:50 pm
@Tuna,
Quote:
The Turing test is a test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behavior equivalent to, or indistinguishable from, that of a human
.

I took a turing test once. They put me in a room by a computer keyboard and over the course of a few weeks I talked to 250 other people that way.

I flunked. It was a shut-out: 250-0.

So then, what I wanna know now is what does that prove?

Is I is, or is I aint a p-zombie, ya figure?
0 Replies
 
puzzledperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2015 02:40 am
@Tuna,
Those around me are zombies. How could I prove anything to a zombie? What I need is strong juju to control the zombies or to disanimate them.
0 Replies
 
puzzledperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2015 02:59 am
@Tuna,
Whenever anyone says something like "consciousness is an illusion" or "everyone is a p-zombie" I know I'm dealing with a p-zombie. Sentient beings don't question the existence of sentience because they themselves experience it and directly apprehend it in a way that no argument or supposed evidence could disprove. A p-zombie, by contrast, doesn't perceive the inherent absurdity of denying the very possibility of sentience, because it doesn't actually perceive anything, because it isn't sentient.

Much of "history" and "current events" is also incompatible with sentience and tells me (along with certain other evidence) that I'm living in a fake world whose ostensible other residents are actually p-zombies.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2015 06:32 am
@puzzledperson,
Quote:
Whenever anyone says something like "consciousness is an illusion" or "everyone is a p-zombie" I know I'm dealing with a p-zombie. Sentient beings don't question the existence of sentience because they themselves experience it and directly apprehend it in a way that no argument or supposed evidence could disprove.

A p-zombie, by contrast, doesn't perceive the inherent absurdity of denying the very possibility of sentience, because it doesn't actually perceive anything, because it isn't sentient.

I agree. I think the argument an eliminative materialist makes is that sentience is an illusion or a trick of language. It's not the strongest argument in the world. The alternatives all have the same challenges, though:

1) Finding a place in the realm of physics for sentience,
2) Explaining the relationship between mind and body, and
3) Sorting out the problem of other minds.

Considering the magnitude of those challenges, the EM's simple view that there is nothing to explain is attractive.

Quote:
Much of "history" and "current events" is also incompatible with sentience and tells me (along with certain other evidence) that I'm living in a fake world whose ostensible other residents are actually p-zombies.

I think it's true that we spend a fair amount of time on "auto-pilot," simply accepting norms and moving along well-worn ruts, saying what we're supposed to say, eating what we're supposed to eat, wearing what we're supposed to wear, etc. Maybe we're all part p-zombie.
0 Replies
 
 

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