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@coldjoint,

When you are right you are right. If we can't talk to each other anymore, if we cant do so honestly, if we can't compare notes on where reality lies then we are all toast.

1 Reply

Sacrificing a daughter in the name of religion is nothing new.

Ancient Israel (Judges Chapter 11)
30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.

33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.

36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.

39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man.

Jordan, 2014:
A Christian father of girl in the Ajlun province of Jordan has been charged with killing his 17-year-old daughter in cold blood. The murder came on the heals of her conversion to Islam, police sources said.

According to the Ajlun police investigations, the teen had converted to Islam last Wednesday. Shortly thereafter, she participated in a prominent Islamic cleric’s preaching at the Jordanian University in the capital Amman.

The Iranian international news source The World (Al-Alam), reported that the very same day, the father found out his daughter’s conversion, he beat her over the head with a rock until she died.

Al-Bawaba News reports that “Related security sources added that residents in Ajloun province tried to break into the local church in protest after hearing the news that the father in the community killed his daughter for her religious decision.”

Local law enforcement, speaking on conditions of anonymity said that the father was taken into custody and charged with murder.

Alabama 2014:
Pamela Christensen has been charged with the attempted murder of her three daughters so they would “meet Jesus Christ” after receiving instructions from her husband (who is a pastor) about the “world coming to an end” according to court documents.

When police arrived at the Christensen home on September 25 (after 911 dispatchers received two hang-up calls), they found Pamela dressed in white, covered in blood. The children were all upstairs, dressed in white, two suffering from stab wounds to the chest. The mother also had self-inflicted stab wounds on her abdomen and chest according to Kendall County Court records. Also at the scene of the crime was a homemade poison/sedative made from dishwashing detergent.

According to a police affidavit, Pamela told officers that she was sending the girls home to “meet Jesus Christ”. The children told the police that their mother held them at knife-point asking them if they accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and savior before stabbing two of the girls. When asked by police about the poisonous liquid found in the home, the mother admitted to concocting the mixture to subdue her children, hoping they would fall asleep so she could stab them.

Pamela told police that her husband, Vaughn Christensen former pastor of Sugar Grove Church, had left several messages about the ending of the world, instructing her to prepare the family to meet Jesus. I should also note that the father recently received a restraining order to keep away from the family after violent and erratic behavior toward the wife and children – including threats of suicide. In fact, police report to visiting the house on several occasions in the last year with reports of suicidal activity.

1 Reply

@Tes yeux noirs,

Quote:

Ancient Israel (Judges Chapter 11)

Do you see the word ancient? And do you see the date on this religiously motivated killing?

And two freak honor killings by Christians have no bearing on Islamic honor killings. Over 1,000 women are killed in Pakistan alone in one year.

Is this better?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Acid_attack_victim.jpg

The way you reason I think you know all about acid.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Acid_attack_victim.jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing&h=680&w=1024&tbnid=446_UkweYy5y7M:&tbnh=138&tbnw=207&usg=__5vUw7s6uG8lO8iu6B09oioi5nlY=&docid=-Jf709aaqEh8lM&sa=X&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAGoVChMIjqeAxarUyAIVRY-ACh1hVw_3

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

If we can't talk to each other anymore, if we cant do so honestly

Unfortunately, what do you see here?

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
If we can't talk to each other anymore, if we cant do so honestly

Unfortunately, what do you see here?

A wacky Leftist view that Muslims cant be criticized because in their view muslims are a protected victims group. This all stems from their misguilded opinion that there should be groups protected from having the truth told about them at all. This follows from their very fucked up opinion that the only groups that should be talked about are the groups that they dont like.

No sacred cows, AND TELL THE TRUTH!, that is my policy, and it should be yours (figuratively) too.

0 Replies

Coldjoint sure is a prick.

1 Reply

@Tes yeux noirs,

Tes yeux noirs wrote:

Coldjoint sure is a prick.

Who cares. Is he right? That is what matters.

0 Replies

@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Do you see the word ancient? And do you see the date on this religiously motivated killing?

2014 in both of Tes yeux noirs' examples. 2014 Alabama on one of them.

____

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Quote:

Lebanon
Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war.

The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.[91] A British photographer present during the incident said that "People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians."[92] After the end of the civil war, Christian militias refused to disband, concentrating in the Israeli-occupied south of the country, where they terrorized Muslim and Druze villages and forcefully recruited men and boys from those communities into their groups.[93]

United States

See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States and Terrorism in the United States

Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology.[94]

Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ.[95]

Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as non-Christians.

After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[96][97][98] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[99] A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".[100][101]

Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.[102]

Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[103]

In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington state. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.[104]

In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.[105]

In 2015, Robert Doggart, a former right-wing Congressional candidate, was arrested by the FBI while planning a terror attack on New York Muslims. The FBI says Doggart was planning to firebomb and burn down a mosque, school, and other buildings, and to use an M-4 assault rifle, a handgun, Molotov cocktails, a pistol, and a machete to kill anyone who resisted him. He faces five years in prison and was released on $30,000 bail after pleading guilty to a single count of interstate communication of threats. As noted by the criminal complaint, Doggart spoke of his willingness to sacrifice his life to prove his "commitment to our God". He also exhorted his followers to be "cruel" to Muslims, to burn down their mosque, kill them, and even to cut them to shreds with a machete. Doggart's defense attorneys said that their client is an ordained minister in the Christian National Church, has numerous degrees and certificates, and is a veteran. According to court documents, Doggart is a member of several "private militia groups".[106][107][108][109][110][111]

Global ideologies

See also: Anti-abortion violence, Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movement

Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology which asserts that North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God's chosen people.

It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Army of God, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. It has been cited as an influence on a number of terrorist attacks around the world, including the 2002 Soweto bombings.[112][113][114][115]

These groups are estimated to have 2,000 members in the United States,[116] and an unknown number in Canada and the rest of the British Commonwealth.

Due to the promotion of Christian Identity doctrines through radio and later the Internet, an additional 50,000 unaffiliated individuals are thought to hold Christian Identity beliefs.[116] The primary spread of Christian Identity teachings is believed to be through white supremacist prison gangs.[117]

I know that when I see the words Christian and patriot in conjunction, I expect to see or hear about violence.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Except for in a very few places Christianity is becoming less important to people, which has been the trend for a long time. The same can not be said about Islam. You are not making an apples to apples comparison, and everyone knows it. You are trading in intellectual dishonesty.

0 Replies

Is this discussion actually going anywhere?

1 Reply

@Tes yeux noirs,

Tes yeux noirs wrote:

Is this discussion actually going anywhere?

It has not even been two hours. Do you suffer from unrealistic expectations often?

0 Replies

Looks like that girl was Islamophobic, and she died from it.

0 Replies

Teen describes New York church assault

By Lawrence Crook and Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN

Parents face manslaughter charges; four others are accused of second-degree assault

New Hartford, New York (CNN)Christopher Leonard spoke quietly, his head bowed, as he described the day his brother died.

One minute, they were standing in front of their church and facing questions from the pastor. Then, he said, the beating began.

"It was a black cord about 4 feet long," he testified in court on Wednesday. "It was folded twice."

The 17-year-old could be a key witness in a case that started in a small church in upstate New York and has drawn national attention. Police say Christopher Leonard and his brother Lucas were beaten in the sanctuary of Word of Life Christian Church in New Hartford, New York, after Lucas expressed a desire to leave the congregation.

Lucas Leonard, 19, was later pronounced dead at a hospital. He suffered injuries so severe that emergency room doctors thought he had been shot, police said.

"He was laying on the ground moaning. ... I knew something wasn't right. ... I rushed over and saw he wasn't breathing, so I tried to give him CPR," Christopher Leonard testified Wednesday, describing the moments after the beating.

The accusations have shaken the tiny town about 250 miles north of New York City. The boys' parents, Bruce T. Leonard, 65, and Deborah R. Leonard, 59, are charged with first-degree manslaughter. Four other church members -- including Sara Ferguson, the brothers' stepsister -- were charged with second-degree assault, also a felony. All have pleaded not guilty.
Church members arrested after teen's death
6 photos: Church members arrested after teen's death

Christopher Leonard said Wednesday that Ferguson hit him "everywhere except my head."

After Leonard's testimony at the hearing, a judge decided there was enough evidence for the case against Ferguson to continue. She remains in jail on $50,000 bond.

CNN's Lawrence Crook reported from New Hartford. CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet wrote the story in Atlanta. CNN's Ray Sanchez contributed to this report.

0 Replies

Toddler found in backpack beaten to death to oust demons: Mom pleads guilty
Use your key for the next article
Next: James Okkerse killed by alligator: No one warned us not to swim, says friend
March 28, 2015 3:37 PM MST

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A Maryland woman pleaded guilty of involuntary manslaughter in an Ohio court Friday. Dainesha Stevens admitted to allowing a friend to beat her 1-year-old toddler to death because he thought the child was possessed by demons.
A Maryland woman pleaded guilty of involuntary manslaughter in an Ohio court Friday. Dainesha Stevens admitted to allowing a friend to beat her 1-year-old toddler to death because he thought the child was possessed by demons.
Chris Potter, Creative Commons

In the case of the death of a Maryland boy found beaten to death and stuffed inside a backpack and floating in an Ohio creek on New Year's Eve, the mother has now pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter. The 1-year-old toddler, the mother said, was beaten to death by the man she was living with when he attempted to rid the child of demons.

The Associated Press reported (via Yahoo News) March 27 that Dainesha Stevens, the 25-year-old mother of Cameron Beckford, had decided to take responsibility for the death of her child, having allowed her friend to beat the little boy in order to expel demons possessing him. It is as yet unclear as to why the man thought the toddler had demons.

"It was the first step for her taking responsibility for her inactions ... and not doing more to protect her child," Stevens' defense attorney, Mark Collins, said. It is also a step in the direction of helping authorities prosecute the man allegedly responsible for Cameron Beckford's death.

Thus far, the man believed responsible has not been charged in the case. However, he is expected to face prosecution soon, as Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien intends to bring the case before a Grand Jury. The toddler's mother's help was needed to prosecute the man, who is alleged to be the only person to have beaten the child. The man is currently held on a gun charge related to violation of his probation.

According to the Frederick News Post, Collins explained that Stevens would testify on behalf of Franklin County prosecutors at proceedings against Kurt A. Flood. He has been identified as the 24-year-old man suspected in the beating death of Cameron S. Beckford.

"He's the one that physically assaulted and abused the child over a period of time," O'Brien said. "She, as the mother, had a duty to not stand by and tolerate it, and she violated that duty."

Dainesha Stevens moved to Ohio from Maryland in mid-December. The friend she was staying with in Columbus, Flood, told her that her son had demons and the only way to get rid of them was by beating the child. However, Flood injured the toddler on Dec. 25, and Stevens later found the little boy unresponsive. They then put the toddler's body in a backpack and placed it in a nearby creek, where it was found six days later.

Stevens faces a 12-year prison sentence, which was jointly recommended by the prosecution and her attorney. Her sentencing is scheduled July 23. She would be eligible for parole after nine years upon fulfillment of her agreement with prosecutors.

Cameron Beckford also had a sister, now 7 years old, who was reportedly also disciplined by the man who allegedly beat her brother to death. She is now back in Maryland with her father, according to Dainesha Stevens' attorney. However, the young girl's discipline did not rise to the level of abuse, Prosecutor O'Brien stated.

The Ohio toddler in the backpack case is oddly reminiscent of the January 2014 Maryland murder case where two women were charged with the slaying of two toddlers. The women, one of which was the mother of the children involved, claimed that they were exorcising demons from the four children in the house. However, instead of beating the demons out of the children, they thought stabbing them would expel the demons. The two other children, ages 5 and 8, survived.

0 Replies

Toddler's Exorcism Death Part of Dark History
LiveScience.com By Benjamin Radford, LiveScience Bad Science Columnist
June 7, 2013 2:51 PM



A Virginia man was convicted earlier this week in the death of a 2-year-old who died during a 2011 exorcism. Eder Guzman-Rodriguez beat his daughter Jocelyn to death in an attempt to rid her of the demon he believed was inside her.

Police summoned to the scene encountered several people holding Bibles outside the home, where Guzman-Rodriguez stated that he had also become possessed by a "bad spirit" when he punched and choked Jocelyn to death. The girl was found on a bed, wrapped in a blanket surrounded by Bibles.

Such beliefs in demonic possession and the violent exorcisms that may follow have a long history and can harm the most innocent among us, children.

Psychology of the exorcism

The belief that demons can possess people is one of the most widely held religious beliefs in the world. The Vatican first issued guidelines on exorcisms in 1614 and revised them in 1999. According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, signs of demonic possession in adults include superhuman strength, spitting, cursing, aversion to holy water, and the ability to speak in unknown languages. [The 10 Biggest Unexplained Phenomena]

Those conducting exorcisms are devoutly religious and truly believe they are doing good through the beating and torture of innocents. Though spirits are said to be able to possess anyone, children are especially likely to be suspected of being possessed. Not only are children often thought to be more corruptible and susceptible to evil influences, but their misbehavior (and even innocent actions) may also seem to be manipulated by dark forces. Parents and caregivers who believe in spiritual possession may look for signs their child is possessed: According to police, Guzman-Rodriguez said he believed his daughter was "gesturing to him as if she wanted to fight."

In other cases, believers assume bad behavior is driven by evil spirits — "the devil made me (or him, or her) do it" is very much alive in many people's minds. The beatings and abuse are not seen as a punishment for the child, because the physical aggression, in the exorcist's mind, is directed at the evil spirit within. The child's body is simply seen as a temporary vessel for the bad spirit. The physical and emotional abuse is seen as an unfortunate but necessary price to pay for the child's spiritual salvation.

Child exorcisms

As disturbing as this case is, there are many similar historical precedents. A century ago in Ireland, it was not demons but other supernatural, malevolent entities — fairies — that were believed to possess babies and children. Some children were believed by their parents to be changelings, either "false children" or children possessed by an evil spirit that could be driven from the child through abuse and punishment. In her book "The Burning of Bridget Cleary" (about a woman killed by her husband in an attempt to exorcise fairy spirits from her), folklorist Angela Bourke of the National University of Ireland notes that many "accounts can be found in nineteenth-century newspapers and police reports of suspected child-changelings in Ireland being placed on red-hot shovels, drowned, or otherwise mistreated or killed."

Bourke cites an example from 1828 in which a woman named Ann Roche drowned a 4-year-old boy she believed was possessed; like Guzman-Rodriguez, she claimed that she didn't mean to harm or kill the child, just to drive the spirits out of him. Unlike Guzman-Rodriguez, who was sentenced to just under 21 years in prison, Roche was found not guilty and released.

Though belief in fairies has waned in modern times, belief in spiritual possession by demons and other supernatural entities remains very much with us. In 2003, an autistic 8-year-old boy in Milwaukee was killed during an exorcism by church members who blamed an invading demon for his disability; and in 2005, a young nun in Romania died at the hands of a priest during an exorcism after being bound to a cross, gagged, and left for days without food or water in an effort to expel demons. In 2010, a 14-year-old boy in England was beaten and drowned to death by relatives trying to exorcise an evil spirit from him.

Though belief in spirits and demons has been a part of humanity for millennia, it also has a dark side and can inflict terrible harm on the most innocent among us.

Benjamin Radford is deputy editor of "Skeptical Inquirer" science magazine and author of six books including "Scientific Paranormal Investigation: How to Solve Unexplained Mysteries" and "Hoaxes, Myths, and Manias: Why We Need Critical Thinking." His Web site is www.BenjaminRadford.com.

Follow LiveScience @livescience, Facebook & Google+. Original article on LiveScience.com.

Copyright 2013 LiveScience, a TechMediaNetwork company. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

1 Reply

Quote:

Honor killings are common in EU’s new member state Turkey. Spousal abuse and murder is the number one cause of death for women in Turkey, not cancer, diabetes or heart disease.

https://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/0212_honor1_thumb1-vi.jpg?w=300&h=260

Quote:

Burning, cutting, mutilating, raping and abusing a woman is perfectly legal and fine in Islam. Burning or damaging the Koran is not.

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/muslim-honor-killings-statistics/

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

Do you have any number of deaths from exorcisms> And do you realize that a war on women in Islam has little to do with that?

Or you think that makes it ok?

1 Reply

@duilui,

I'm saying pot meet kettle. How is the disgraceful murder of women by their partners in the US any less upsetting?

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

How is the disgraceful murder of women by their partners in the US any less upsetting?

Because it is not sanctioned by a religion at present, except for Islam. Pick up "Reliance of the Traveler" the book to consult on Sharia and it obligations for the faithful.

In other words, go back to your cop hating thread because you know nothing about this subject.

1 Reply

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