Packing up and moving to a foreign country

Yeah, I agree, eoe. You are really scaring me, Gala. Where's all the glory stuff? I have seen one Fellini movie, and I have La Dolce Vita on my "to do" list. As I recall, I liked the craziness of the one I saw. I can't recall the exact name of it, but I think it was something like "The Face of The Moon". Does that sound familiar?

kicky, are you going to italy to get out of your rut, or are you going because you want it easy?

travel, especially to a foreign land, for me, meant coming face-to-face with much and most of what i was either afraid of, or what i disliked within myself... travel is a combination of facing fear, frustration, and magic, that's why i did it, to summon up all that i doubted within myself-- and to come out of it wiser. this is about the closest definition i can come to for the word adventure.

Yes. An adventure must include a fear factor. Without it, there's no adventure.

There are pluses and minuses with doing anything and unfortunately I think Kicky feels stagnant right now. A huge step like this is guaranteed to bring huge emotional change for quite some time - during, and for quite some time after, a move to a foreign country. Even if it turned out to be a dreadful and frustrating experience - the experience itself is worth it, and the feeling of empowerment from being a little bit brave to venture into something so different can kick-start thoughts about other ventures. If it turns out not so good there is nothing lost in trying it and then coming back to America to try something else later.

I was shocked I was so homesick my first year in America. I look back now and I am so glad I did this because I would be doing the same old thing in Ireland to this day and I have gotten to experience so much more here. Life will never be 100% fabulous but I am happy with the decision I made. I'd even do it again - pack my stuff and move to a foreign country with no contacts - if the mood took me. I'm of the opinion, what's the worst that could happen? I think about that, and can I handle it, and most of the time I know I can even though I tend to worry needlessly.

If I go to Italy, it would be to get some perspective, and to shake up my life. I want a change. I'm just not so sure how big a change yet. Obviously, I have to visit before I really get serious about going there, but I don't know if I want to do it if it's going to be a hellish nightmare either. I don't think I need that much of a change.

Just packing up and moving to Italy sounds so romantic and crazy and amazing to me, and your description is exactly what I needed and hoped to hear. The real, unromanticized truth about it. This is exactly why I started this thread in the first place, I guess. I wanted to hear the bad stuff, as well as the wonderful stuff, so I can make an informed decision without all the fantasy dreams of la dolce vita. I don't know if I'm going or not yet, but I thank you for the real deal. I appreciate it greatly.

Maybe Kicky isn't racist about Gypsies himself, and wouldn't much care whether they move in "flocks" or not.

Oh and guys, just so you know, I'm not a complete neophyte when it comes to making big moves. I moved to NYC about six years ago without knowing a soul, so I'm aware of some of the hardships that you have to go through.

But if moving to New York was a big move, it just seems that moving to Italy, or any foreign country for that matter, would be on a gigantic scale, comparatively.

Here's one of the big things that keeps attracting me to this idea though.

They say that in America, people live to work, but in Italy, they work to live. I am so interested to learn about that perspective, and what kind of lives people have with that kind of outlook. I believe it is the better way to look at things, but I'm seeing it from here, so I don't really know what it means, in terms of what kind of life it gets you. It totally fascinates me to wonder about that.

craven, the gypsies are notorius for trying to rip-off unsuspecting visitors. they move in groups, mostly children, at least 5 at a time. the one who is the leader will stand before you with a piece of limp cardboard on his or her hand while the others will surround you and try to lift your wallet. by their sheer numbers, the unsuspecting person will not only be overwhelmed but short of their wallet and more if they are not careful.

or, once i was in an alley, looking at mosaic, when three adult gypsy women had me cornered. there was no one around and they were heckling me to let them tell me my fortune. i had a choice, if i said no, they were not going to let me go. so i gave them my hand to read and a 1000 lire for their services. and, by the way, the fortune telling was total bullshit, but it was better to get away from them.

or, another time, i was riding the bus, when one child was leaning all over me looking at my purse saying lovingly "la borsa, la borsa". i had every right to shove him off of me.

if you were traveling over there and no one who'd lived in italy warned you about the gypsies then they were being irresponsible.

yes, the gypsies have a rich history, but they will also rob you...that's the reality, call me a racist if you like, but i'm not going to dumb down my language to suit some politically correct american ideal.

kicky, a hellish nightmare-- far from it, what i've told you so far are simply variations of precautions you'd need to take when traveling to any large city.

What would the gypsy women have done to you if you refused a reading and also refused to give them money?

They would have picked her pocket and left, after cursing at her.

kicky, if you want to avoid the heat and the big city headaches, take a look at northern Italy. Mountains, lakes, small towns, very temperate climate. There's Lake Garda in the east (sort of Tyrolean/Italian) and Lake Como and Lake Maggiore (and others) in the west, not far from Milan. Beautiful scenery, mild weather year 'round...these places are where the Italians themselves go to escape the city.

Pick her pocket? How does one pick your pocket when they're in your face and you're fully aware of them? Nothing stealthy about that.

kicky, You can only accomplish your dreams if you do it. Otherwise, you'll regret not having done what you dreamed about when you grow old; nothing accomplished and no memories, with nothing left but regrets. Go for it, my good man.

You underestimate their talent, eoe. Yes, they can pick your pocket when they're in your face and you're fully aware of them. I've watched it happen.

The hamburgers had some troubles with Zigeuner in Berlin last year. Definitely something you need to be prepared for when travelling in Europe. It's said that hamburger and I have Romany blood, and it's hard to see what seems to have happened in some of the communities (and what Romany get blamed for, when it is other groups of Travellers).

Looking at the employment numbers for Italy is a bit off-putting. You'd definitely want to suss things out well in advance.

But, gooooooooooooooo !

Ah, I have lots to say on all this, but I haven't made the move myself. I am still considering it, even now, and I am two decades older than you, Kicky. A friend is strongly suggesting I move to Ortigia, which is the old city part of Siracusa, in Sicily.

One of my friends was on vacation, some years ago, one of those post college see Europe until you're completely broke trips, and she had four hundred dollars left when her pals went home and decided to check out italy. She didn't speak italian. Took the train to Rome. She was met at the station by what I call the "carcoats", fellows who try to interest you in this or that hotel. The dummy, she went with one of them (I've always avoided 'touts') and he has ended up a lifelong friend. Several people who lived at the hotel were working in a language institute and she got a job teaching english. Another one of her jobs was as a governess for the Barberini family (that's one of the papal families). Eventually she got a typing job for an american author, a famous fellow. She typed a few of his books from his handwritten yellow pads. They are still friends too. Somewhere in all this she was a production assistant at Cinecitta'. She eventually moved back, after nine years, to Los Angeles and went to law school, but still returns to italy often, I think at least once a year.

Which reminds me, there was an attorney in my italian classes who got a job in a law firm in Milano...

An author you might enjoy is Timothy Parks. He is British, studied at Cambridge, teaches english in Verona, married an italian woman, and is a successful novelist and translator. He wrote two books about moving to italy that describe some of the hard to get used to parts and some of the wonderfulness. The first one is "Italian Neighbors", the second, "Italian Education".

On italian cats, consider reading Rome and a Villa, by Eleanor Clark. It was written in the fifties, I think, but there is a new paperback edition out. There is a piece in it about the cat colony in Piazza Vittorio Emannuele that at twenty or so pages long is one of the best descriptions of cats I've ever read.
Actually, I have a photocopy of those pages if you want me to send it to you (they're not long pages).

Ah, and how could I forget, a friend's daughter went to italy, I think with a girlfriend, and they went for a drink at a hotel in Firenze and she and the bartender fell in love. She stayed. He was married but separated. He actually owned several bars, it is a kind of "concession". They've had their ups and downs, but they've been together twenty years and counting. The wife had a new mate too, and eventually the divorce went through. She became his business partner and is very involved in italian life, not staying as some expats do, in expat clumps.

kicky, ehBeth's advise to investigate your destination is well taken - especially for the purpose of living there for more than a temporary stay. When people ask about moving to Florida or Arizona for retirement, I tell them to go there first, and live there for a week or two to see if they like what they see. Sometimes, places are not what they are cracked up to be for everyone. 1) Study your destination; a) cost of living, b) economy, c) social life, d) acceptance of strangers to their village/town, e) availability of food and transportation, f) crime rates, and g) health care. When I plan my travels to new destinations, I study their history, learn about their economy, what's available in terms of sites and entertainment, cultural idiosyncrasies, and their language. You should do no less. Good luck.

Thanks for all the info and advice, everyone. Unfortunately, I can barely see what I'm tryping right now, due to the fact that my monitor is becoming more and more blurry by the second. It took me almost an hour to read through the past few posts, so I am giving up. Time for a new computer! I'll try to respond to you all tomorrow from work. Ciao for now, miei amici...

iw ould have said the same as c.i. in his last two posts, although not as well as him.

being an army brat i used to travel a lot, except for missing friends you've made in school ( i went to 16 different schools from kinder to high school) it's great. after graduation i enlisted in the marine corps and traveled somemore. at the age of 43, i'm looking at moving again, possibly to singapore, or malaysia if i can work out the details. eventually i plan to move back to one of the hawaiian islands, but for now, i want to explore all that i can.

you should too.

pueo,

I've lived in both, Singapore is a lot nicer....