In the Dark of Night: The American Film Noir

Checking in.

Yes, me too, Lightwizard

I wish I could remember the NAMES of all those wonderful b&w crime/sex/ mystery & world weary private detective in sordid little office movies that used to be on television. Wonderful stuff!

The only title that comes to mind is Chinatown, which doesn't really fit your category, does it? Loved it, though! Great film! Truly disturbing ending!

I have a little bit of trouble in the definition of film-noir. Is the femme fatale a must? Can't it be homme-fatale?

The best ones I've seen

Secret Beyond the Door (Lang)
Double Indemnity (Wilder)

Others:

Scarlet Street
Dead Reckoning
The Prowler
On Dangerous Ground
Boomerang!
The Dark Past
In a Lonely Place

"Chinatown" is now considered classic noir, despite the color. Contrary to the belief that it was the first color film noir, Gene Tierney in "Leave Here to Heaven" is dark and moody, where she tries to keep here husband all to herself, going to far as to try and murder their son. "Chinatown," of course, had all the prerequisites -- the private eye, the femme fetale, the undercurrent of corruption and L.A. locations always seems to add to the atmosphere. Noir has broadened in its now more of a way of looking a humanity -- unabashedly cynical and perverse. It's also the cinematography and even in the Tierney film, there's a harshness to the color.

Kubrick's "The Killing" is a film not often thought of as noir but I think it has the qualifications.

"Johnny Guitar" is Western film noir -- photographed with barely any blues with the kinky subtext and the undercurrent of corruption. The femme fetale turns out to be the heroine, although there are two of them and the other is dark and aggressively authoritarian. Not to mention, butch! Mercedes McCambridge had no problem playing it with the lesbian inferences.

Lightwizard

Oh, I loved the seediness, the atmosphere of Chinatown! All those indoor shots, the filtered light ... All that shadiness & corruption in what was seen as a sunny, optimistic place .. Such beautiful, atmospheric filming!
On top of that, brilliant acting, suspense, love, cynicism, hope, then ultimately futility.
I must see it again. Soon!

Here's a link for anyone whose interested:

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/chinatown.html

Yes, "Chinatown" is on Ebert's list (we discussed it when this series was on Abuzz) as well as "Body Heat" and "The Maltese Falcon."
"Rififi," borrowed a lot from American film noir and started a string of heist movies. "The Killing" is also a heist movie with a terrific ironic ending similar to "Treasure of the Sierra Madre."

It is embarrassing to admit, in this sophisticated crowd, that film noir is very difficut for me to watch. I hate that the bad guy wins or that the black perversions are left to fester. I go through it in my mind to change things, to make them better, never successfully, naive fool that I am.

That said, there are a few that left me stunned with their ability to capture the ugly and powerful underbelly of society--usually those that had some humor. Anything with Jack Nicholson guarantees I'll be in the audience.

The Maltese Falcon and Chinatown are two that I would watch again.

My favorite film noir is the one that closes out the genre cycle in 1958...Orson Welles' TOUCH OF EVIL. Not only that, it is my favorite Weles film. This movie has the greatest seedy atmosphere of any film noir--a Mexican border town, complete with Marlene Dietrich as a brothel madam, Akim Tamiroff as a crime boss, Mercedes McCambridge as a butch criminal, Dennis Weaver as a terrified motel clerk, and Welles himself as the ultimate corrupt cop. The first shot of TOUCH is so famous that Robert Altman parodied it in the first shot of THE PLAYER--a six minute continuous tracking shot that sets up the plot for the whole movie. TOUCH OF EVIL has the feel of a gaudy nightmare, an Expressionist film noir that only Orson Welles would have had the audacity to make.

"Touch of Evil" was filmed near where my Mom first moved to California as a child in Venice, CA. There were some abandoned old buildings that were headed for demolition and Welles used them as a "set" for the border Mexican town to save money on the film. It's a toss up for me whether that film or "Double Indemnity" is my favorite film noir. Have you seen the original Welles cut of the film just out on DVD last year?

Lightwizard, what was recently released of TOUCH OF EVIL was NOT the original Welles cut but, instead, a reconstuction of it by Walter Murch, who was Coppola's sound genius on THE CONVERSATION and APOCALYPSE. I didn't think it was a real improvement over the studio cut.

Murch used Welles original notes and other documentation for the reconstruction. I disagree that it's not an improvement as it makes it more coherant for a first time viewer. If you compare the two scene by scene, one might see where a first time viewer would have been more confused by the studio cut. I'm actually astonished that you, of all people, would defend a studio cut (done under left-handed supervision of none other than Charlton Heston, who Welles didn't consider it a privelege to work with).

Laura , Gene Tierney

I don't know if these are all considered film noir, but here are some of the oldies I remember and enjoyed:

Asphalt Jungle (Marilyn Monroe and Louis Calhern were great together. The whole cast was great.)

Gilda - Rita Hayworth, Glenn Ford and George MacCready (didn't he have a blade in his cane?)

The Big Heat - Gloria Graham, Lee Marvin and Glenn Ford (I thought Ford was greatly under-rated. ) - I'll never forget Marvin burning Graham's face with a red hot coffee pot. I don't think I could have taken that scene in technicolor.

High Sierra - Bogart and Ida Lupino, remade as I Died A Thousand Times, and Colorado Territory)

He Ran All the Way - John Garfield and Shelley Winters

The Strange Love of Martha Ivers - Stanwyck, Heflin and Kirk Douglas

Act of Violence - Van Heflin and Robert Ryan (Ryan stalking his former senior officer, Heflin, who betrayed his men while a POW)

The Stranger - Orson Welles and Edward G. Robinson

Key Largo - Bogart and Bacall and Edw. G. Robinson, and a memorable Claire Trevor

I thought they were great at the time I saw them.
What do you think, L.W.?

Other than "Double Indemnity," "The Strange Love of Martha Ivers" is my other favorite Stanwyck film. I think the definition has opened up for film noir and this film has enough of the elements to include it. "The Stranger" was more of an espionage murder mystery but the mood certainly was there! Welles didn't mind borrowing Hitchcock's final setpiece effect even though the bell tower wasn't a famous landmark. "Asphalt Jungle" also has some of the elements even though it's more of a traditional crime drama.

D'Artagnan posted this and I got an E mail update but somehow it didn't post:

Mention of all those great Bogart films has whet my appetite to see some again!

How about \"M\", a German film by Fritz Lang, starring Peter Lorre as a child murderer. It\'s a bit unconventional as film noir--there\'s no femme fatale, for one--but it certainly is dark and atmospheric. Proto film noir, perhaps?


LW: I guess I'd put "M" in the German Expressionists category but it's content is a not quite film noir -- the use of light and dark contrast, light and shadow, camera angles, et al, are certainly what influenced the American filmmakers who created the genre.

I've always been partial to the Bogart version of "The Big Sleep," however, you all have reminded me of many a good one, and I see some pleasurable watching coming up.

Lightwizard: the original TOUCH OF EVIL is not any more confusing than any other Welles film. Murch did not clarify anything that I could see. My main complaint with Murch's recut is that he eliminated much of the Henry Mancini score which gives the original cut a lot of vitality. As far as Heston, I don't know where you are getting your information about Welles' attitude towards him, but it is not accurate. He respected Heston and was still praising him twenty-five years later in Peter Bogdanovich's book-length interview THIS IS ORSON WELLES. As well he should--Heston got him hired as director on TOUCH OF EVIL to begin with.

Well, if you're going to mention "Chinatown" I'l have to mention the sequel, "The Two Jakes", which I liked even better. This may be because I saw it first. somebody has to help me with this; there was a great film noir, with Edward G. Robinson, and Dan Dureya. There was a lady that was helping Dan hustle Edward G.. I believe "Street" was in the title....does "Mullholland Drive" classify?

BTW, I don't hear his name mentioned enough, but Dureya, is one of my all time favorite sleazeballs. Richard Widmark is another. who can forget that manial laugh. when he pushed that old lady down the steps, in her wheel-chair.