4
   

Are all atheists just unspiritual self-absorbed robots?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 08:42 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Amoh5, Lead foot, seriously. I really am worn out on arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or equivalent arguments. Please show me a solid, fact-based, fallacy-free reason to think that such a supernatural creator-being exists. I'm not swayed by what makes me feel good. I can live happily without daydreams of what might be.

And still you feel compelled to comment. Why waste your time?
najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:00 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

If a God wanted a book to provide guidance for those who believed in him (she, it, them - as you prefer) then certainly he would be capable of making it applicable to men of any age or culture.


I don't think that would work. No matter how the God in question would go about it, he/she/it would still have to deal with a human contemporary language to transcribe his/her/its words to paper. Even if this act was not done by human intervention, but was performed by the God in question itself, said scripture would still of necessity be read by contemporaries in order to learn the edicts put forth and in turn preach to the followers of this God.

And by the very act of interpreting, you take words from their pages and charge them with a subtext of your own cultural morals, values, and beliefs. So when this interpreter is ready to preach to the masses, the words chosen will undoubtedly make sense to these contemporary followers within their own cultural norms and values. For instance, for millennia slavery was an entirely normal and acceptable concept. This in turn would mean that all edicts or parables about such subjects as servitude, servants or even a household, would for the people of the time hold connotations of slaves and the way they are, and ought to be, treated. Nowadays, not so much.

But the real kicker lies in the translations of the scripture in other languages.
Every translation will dilute the original, since it's a translation done by an individual with his/her very own cultural baggage.

So even if the original scripture was in fact handed down by a God, and its words would transcend temporal and geographical boundaries in order to elucidate universal truths, these will be lost in the very first translation made.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:14 pm
@najmelliw,
Quote:
No matter how the God in question would go about it, he/she/it would still have to deal with a human contemporary language to transcribe his/her/its words to paper.



An all power being would hardly need a book of any kind to communicate with the human race he could placed the information right into everyone mind for example for every generation.

Why would he be limited to human technology of the written word?

That the problem with gods that are created in the image of humans not the other way around.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:25 pm
@najmelliw,
Quote:
I don't think that would work. No matter how the God in question would go about it, he/she/it would still have to deal with a human contemporary language to transcribe his/her/its words to paper.
I (and countless others) have no trouble understanding the translated writings of Aristotle, Socrates and many others of long dead cultures. If we humble humans can successfully do this, surely a God capable of creating the universe could do as well.

Sorry about your problem with comprehension.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:33 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
he could placed the information right into everyone mind for example for every generation.

Just as I maintain he has done. It's there, however you are not required to acknowledge it unless you choose to.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:43 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

najmelliw wrote:
I don't think that would work. No matter how the God in question would go about it, he/she/it would still have to deal with a human contemporary language to transcribe his/her/its words to paper.
I (and countless others) have no trouble understanding the translated writings of Aristotle, Socrates and many others of long dead cultures. If we humble humans can successfully do this, surely a God capable of creating the universe could do as well.

Sorry about your problem with comprehension.


So, what has this God written, aside from what it has put in our minds?
najmelliw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:06 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

An all power being would hardly need a book of any kind to communicate with the human race he could placed the information right into everyone mind for example for every generation.

Why would he be limited to human technology of the written word?

That the problem with gods that are created in the image of humans not the other way around.


True. A god would have no problem communicating to the human race directly. Of course, a god would have no problem proving his/her/its existence either.

The latter hasn't happened though... so why should the former? Fact is, the way it seems to be now, that holy scripture is the way god(s), if they exist at all of course, deem to bring their message to the masses. I'm just trying to work within the boundaries of a god spreading his word through scripture, since most religions seem to have some form of scripture within their legacy.

Leadfoot wrote:

I (and countless others) have no trouble understanding the translated writings of Aristotle, Socrates and many others of long dead cultures. If we humble humans can successfully do this, surely a God capable of creating the universe could do as well.

Sorry about your problem with comprehension.

Comparing Gods to philosophers? Bit of a stretch?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:10 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Just as I maintain he has done. It's there, however you are not required to acknowledge it unless you choose to.


Odd that I missed getting his direction communication.

Given me a break the christian god is created in human image not the other way around like all the other gods that mankind had come up with in our history.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:38 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:

So, what has this God written, aside from what it has put in our minds?
Many complain about the lack of a written word that they can understand from him, or that you can't depend on translation, words from a different culture, etc. But wouldn't you much rather have the first hand experience of finding it written in your mind?

Not that I think God personally/physically wrote the book ( it never makes that claim) but it does make sense that a God would take a hand in insuring that a record of his dealings with man would be around for people to compare with what's written in their minds and others. The book can be a help, but I would not trade that for the direct experience of what I find written within.
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:39 pm
I'm a robot, and so is my wife.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:42 pm
@najmelliw,
Quote:
Comparing Gods to philosophers? Bit of a stretch?

The issue was whether we could understand writings of other languages, ages and cultures. You don't seem able to understand words written in your own language and time. Sorry about that again.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:58 pm
@Leadfoot,
To say nothing of the fact that the bible contain zero facts that was unknown to the human race at the time of it writing.

Lot of human suffering would not had happen if god had spend a few paragraphs on germs and the usefulness of boiling water.

Getting the value of PI a little better then stating a value of 3 would had gone a long way to verify the bible or any fact that was unknown at the time of it writing for that matter.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:02 pm
@Leadfoot,
So, what is this record/book of his dealings?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:35 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

To say nothing of the fact that the bible contain zero facts that was unknown to the human race at the time of it writing.

I assume you are talking about science related facts. It's not a science book but what you said is not true. Before Stephen Hawking made his recent statement about the universe springing into existance from nothing, the bible said all was void and then everything sprang into existence with but a word from God. We can quibble about the source but the fact is that physicists assumed for many years that the univers was always here. There is lots more but I really don't think you give a ****.

Quote:

Lot of human suffering would not had happen if god had spend a few paragraphs on germs and the usefulness of boiling water.

You can bitch & complain about it but struggle & death is the object of this life. You may have some fun along the way but basically, this is a meat grinder.
Quote:

Getting the value of PI a little better then stating a value of 3 would had gone a long way to verify the bible or any fact that was unknown at the time of it writing for that matter.

You want it all handed to you on a silver platter? Again, it's not a physics or math text but God gave us an intellect and wanted us to figure out how to have dominion over the earth by ourselves. But there are even more important things he wanted you to figure out as well.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
So, what is this record/book of his dealings?

Action Comics Issue #1, June, 1938
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:57 pm
Ah-hahahahahahahahaha . . .

You can't beat this place for free entertainment.
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:18 pm
@Leadfoot,
1. Philosophers tend to write for an entirely different group of individuals, namely academia. They also tend to examine more abstract concepts, which translate easier to modern times.
2. Holy scripture tends to be interpreted as edicts or law from a god, and is thusly superimposed on our modern day society in an almost verbatim manner. Philosophical texts? Not so much. Furthermore, as stated above, holy scripture was not just written for intelligentsia. It was written to be studied and preached to the uninitiated, the masses. So, in comparison, take these philosophical texts from ancient philosophers. See how easy it is for the modern day layman to understand the core concepts.

3. If you are truly intend on attacking me ad hominem by claiming I don't understand my own language and culture, it would probably behoove you to know my language is in fact Dutch. Sorry about that too.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:24 pm
Leadfoot has scant room to criticize anyone else's command of English.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:37 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
So, what is this record/book of his dealings?

Action Comics Issue #1, June, 1938

Of course, that's the god Homer Simpson prays to.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:40 pm
@najmelliw,
Quote:
my language is in fact Dutch.

Ah, No wonder you didn't understand your English.
 

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