4
   

Are all atheists just unspiritual self-absorbed robots?

 
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 06:03 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Seriously, I'd like to know why the male pronoun would set off alarms.


LOL there is no logic for assigning a sex to an all powerful being and I am laughing over thinking of a god with a female co-partner that have the poor "guy" henpecked.

Or a female god on her period who on having a bad day flood the whole earth saving only one family.

How does anyone give any credit to the christian bible type of a god?

Amoh5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 06:17 pm
@BillRM,
I think you are contemplating the physics of God. Christianity is about the spirit or psychology of God not the physique. Thats what I mean about some atheists they always have to get physical about everything. It is the spirit that drives the physical body, not the other way around. But i understand your query. "Heavenly Father", "Father Sky" does that ring a bell? Sounds similar to the concept of "Mother Earth" doesn't it?
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 06:20 pm
@Amoh5,
Yeah, right, you tried "atheism." An atheist does not substitute the lack of belief in gods for religion. I think you're lying, and i think you're obsessed with the idea that everyone needs an "-ism."
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 06:31 pm
@Amoh5,
Sorry but you can wave the spirit banner around but there is still no logic in assigning a sex to an all powerful god as sex is just one means to transfer genes from one generation to another and that is something no all powerful god would need to do.

In fact a lot of blood was spilled in the early church in how to fit a son of god that was born of a human woman into this story.
Amoh5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 06:39 pm
@BillRM,
I still think you are contemplating the physical universe rather than the spiritual/psychological universe. Lord Jesus is not sexist, or puts any human female down. He loves both sexes
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 09:34 pm
Like I said, Christians don't all think the same, I know a lot of other Christians that don't agree with my views and vice-versa. I know this is also similar with atheists. But people do put us in predjudice stereotype categories to assume we all think or behave the same way. Even looking at BillRM's last post stating that women or men were killed or degraded by so-called Christians in the past. I don't think like them, I just think they are filthy freaks. Lord Jesus has never promoted those ghastly sexist ideas or actions. I find these sorts of people sick-minded and not even human at all.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 10:03 pm
Didn't have a beef with slavery, though:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2015 11:52 pm
@FBM,
I only like reading the sayings of Lord Jesus, I don't really read what anyone else or the apostles say. Thats how I am as a Christian, there is only one teacher, Lord Jesus. In my mind I don't think he was approving slavery. To me he was only illustrating disloyalty and the consequences. I would agree though that it is a horrible and barbaric kind of parable. But that isn't a direct aspiration of Lord Jesus if you read everything hes says. Just not a nice parable I would say. Not for children anyway.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:29 am
@Amoh5,
I also reached a point in my education where I realized that the only way I could continue to be involved in the religion was to cherry-pick the hell out of the scriptures. Then I realized that the parts I cherry-picked were an expression of a pre-existing sense of morality, not something I'd been mystically granted. Certainly not something that the Bible taught me. After all, I was rejecting 90% of that in favor of the few teachings I could get along with.

It wasn't too long after that that it dawned on me that it's all made up by people, and people who weren't very good at what they were doing, at that. So I dumped it all. I'll let myself be led by a god, as long as there's evidence that such a thing exists, but I'll not let myself be led by a bunch of story-tellers pretending to be onto something real.

Amoh5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:36 am
@FBM,
For me I think the bible is filled with a lot of unrealistic magical mythical connotations that I get really annoyed with because I'm a realist. I know life is just a lot of blood, sweat and tears which they are the only magical factors of the real world. But there is one more factor that can't be ignored and thats "positive thinking". Lord Jesus for me is a positive influence where I learnt to value human life. I didn't learn that from science or physics. If you subtract all the mythical connotations applied to Lord Jesus you are just left with a great teacher on human morality. Science or physics doesn't teach psychology on why we have certain feelings or emotions about things? what is sacred or insane? our sense of family or morality. Atheism didn't work for me and it didn't encourage a sense of value towards human life for me. I hated a lot of people, I couldn't care a less if they dropped dead in front of me. But I forgot about your query on God, I'm sorry for rambling on about myself. For me I think Christianity is not about the physique of God but rather the spirit or psychology of God, such as our sense of family, respect and morality. They are survival factors which can only come from God if there is a God. Survival and prosperity are the main objectives for any lifeform. I have already explained my view on the physique of God which I always say is the "Sky". Like "Heavenly Father" or "Father Sky". Which is also relative to "Mother Earth". But I have no problem with that if God is the sky, without the sky I wouldn't exist. I know theres nothing magical about the sky but it sure dam well keeps us alive.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:29 am
@FBM,
Quote:
don't care what gender you imagine your invisible friend to be. I was pointing out the self-contradiction in you complaining about being accused of anthropomorphizing and then doing it in the same sentence. Rolling Eyes
I wasn't complaining. I wasn't even denying it. I was just saying I was mystified by the accusation by atheists of doing something I freely admit to.

I'm equally mystified by so called 'believers' who profess to believing in a God they CAN'T identify with. If I believed in such a God I would make it my life's mission to find that God, and kill him.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:42 am
Amoh5, Lead foot, seriously. I really am worn out on arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or equivalent arguments. Please show me a solid, fact-based, fallacy-free reason to think that such a supernatural creator-being exists. I'm not swayed by what makes me feel good. I can live happily without daydreams of what might be. Give me something solid to work with.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:48 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Then I realized that the parts I cherry-picked were an expression of a pre-existing sense of morality, not something I'd been mystically granted.
I'm sure you can come up with a non-mystical source for that sense of morality (had to have some evolutionary advantage, etc) vs 'mystically granted' but that debate will go on and on...
najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:48 am
@Amoh5,
Amoh5 wrote:

For me I think the bible is filled with a lot of unrealistic magical mythical connotations that I get really annoyed with because I'm a realist. I know life is just a lot of blood, sweat and tears which they are the only magical factors of the real world. But there is one more factor that can't be ignored and thats "positive thinking". Lord Jesus for me is a positive influence where I learnt to value human life. I didn't learn that from science or physics. If you subtract all the mythical connotations applied to Lord Jesus you are just left with a great teacher on human morality. Science or physics doesn't teach psychology on why we have certain feelings or emotions about things? what is sacred or insane? our sense of family or morality. Atheism didn't work for me and it didn't encourage a sense of value towards human life for me. I hated a lot of people, I couldn't care a less if they dropped dead in front of me. But I forgot about your query on God, I'm sorry for rambling on about myself. For me I think Christianity is not about the physique of God but rather the spirit or psychology of God, such as our sense of family, respect and morality. They are survival factors which can only come from God if there is a God. Survival and prosperity are the main objectives for any lifeform. I have already explained my view on the physique of God which I always say is the "Sky". Like "Heavenly Father" or "Father Sky". Which is also relative to "Mother Earth". But I have no problem with that if God is the sky, without the sky I wouldn't exist. I know theres nothing magical about the sky but it sure dam well keeps us alive.


In my opinion (and I'll probably invite a lot of trouble by voicing it), the bible suffers from the same problems ALL holy scripture suffers from: Namely that it originally was penned down in ancient times, in a correspondingly ancient culture. And no matter who the protagonist is, and the vector of pure goodness this person draws his/her/its inspiration from (Mohammed from Allah, Zarathustra from Ahura Mazda, Jesus from God, or even Buddha from his own enlightened self), and no matter how enlightened this protagonist is, and if he/she/it is a fount of eternal wisdom or love or knowledge or peace or some combination of all of the above, and no matter if he/she/it has conveyed all of these golden truths to his/her/its followers orally, or through the use of the aforementioned holy scripture, it all boils down to one essential dilemma: The scripture in question was written/composed/divined if not BY people of that ancient time and culture, than certainly FOR people of that ancient time and culture. And in order to get a message across, you will have to make sure it is delivered in a way that the people of that culture and time actually understood it.

Back to us, a heaping bunch of years in the future. We have lost touch with the morals and values of the people of that time, but by the very fact that we have regaled all of these scriptures as 'holy', we have pretty much decreed that they need to stay as true to the original as possible. Which makes for a huge chasm in cultural perceptions between the people the scripture was intended for originally, and the people trying to live by its tenets today.

A chasm that can lead to all sorts of pointless debates.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:52 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Then I realized that the parts I cherry-picked were an expression of a pre-existing sense of morality, not something I'd been mystically granted.
I'm sure you can come up with a non-mystical source for that sense of morality (had to have some evolutionary advantage, etc) vs 'mystically granted' but that debate will go on and on...


Yes, it will. As long people keep trying to over-reach the evidence and propose an unnecessary explanation that the evidence doesn't point to. An explanation that makes them feel hopeful, rather than well-informed.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:58 am
@FBM,
Leadfoot wrote:

I'm sure you can come up with a non-mystical source for that sense of morality (had to have some evolutionary advantage, etc) vs 'mystically granted' but that debate will go on and on...


As long as denialism is an option, yes, it will.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dad-opens-up-after-miraculous-son-who-was-born-without-much-of-his-skull-goes-viral-jaxon-strong_560ada2ae4b0768126ff630c?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Quote:
8 Things You Probably Didn't Know Babies Can Do Before They Turn 12 Months Old

She drools, speaks in gibberish, can't feed herself and takes constant naps. If you watch how your baby spends her days, you might think that she doesn't have the cognitive, social or emotional wherewithal to understand much about the world around her and the people in it.

But if you look the right way, you can see that she -- like all babies -- is actually focused on figuring out exactly how the world works. She is systematically analyzing the objects and people around her, making predictions, and designing experiments to test her hypotheses. When the data doesn't pan out as expected, she revises her ideas and engages in further study.

The more that scientists explore how babies interact with the world and work to learn about it, the more sophisticated infants seem to be. Read on to learn about some of their amazing abilities. You'll be surprised and more cognizant of how early developmental skills build.

1. Babies Remember Very Early Experiences
In one landmark experiment, expecting mothers were asked to read The Cat in the Hat aloud twice a day during their last six weeks of pregnancy to their babies. Shortly after birth, these newborns showed an actual preference for this book over other children's stories. (Their preference was indicated by how strongly they sucked on pacifiers while the story was read to them.) Even more remarkable is that these infants preferred The Cat in the Hat to other stories regardless of whether their mother or a different baby's mother recited the book.

2. Babies Know Right From Wrong
By six months of age, babies can make judgments about right and wrong behavior, and favor good over "bad" -- just like most adults. To demonstrate these abilities, researchers had infants watch a puppet push a ball up a hill. Then a second puppet either helped or hindered the effort. Later, when given a choice, babies played more with the helper puppet -- and some even pushed away the "mean" puppet. Even infants as young as three months -- who were not yet old enough to play with puppets like the older babies -- spent more time looking at the nice puppet, showing that an appreciation of good and bad behavior is in place just 12 weeks after birth.


3. Babies Want To Be Helpful
When researchers put 1-year-olds in situations where a stranger was either struggling to open a closet door with full hands or trying to pick up an object beyond reach, the babies spontaneously stopped what they were doing and tried to help. The infants would pick up the object for the stranger or try to help the person open the door! But keep in mind there's also evidence that rewarding infants for engaging in helping behavior hinders rather than promotes future helpfulness. When older babies are given a material reward or verbal praise for helping, they become less likely to help others in the future. So think twice before your applaud your little helper!

4. Babies Understand Statistics
Ten-month-olds in an experiment were shown two jars. The first jar held a 3:1 ratio of pink to black toys (12 pink and four black). The other had a 1:3 ratio (12 pink and 36 black). A researcher took one toy out of each jar, holding it so the babies couldn't see the color, and put it in an opaque cup. Babies who had already shown a preference for the pink toys reached for the cup containing the toy from the first jar because this cup had the higher probability of having a pink toy. Turns out that babies are quite statistically savvy!

5. Babies Learn From Surprises
Surprises get babies to observe closely and even attempt to figure out the unknown. This tendency is demonstrated nicely in a study where 11-month-olds were shown balls behaving in predictable as well as surprising ways. For example, babies saw a ball roll down a ramp. Sometimes it was stopped by a wall. But other times it seemed to pass right through it. Later, the infants were more interested in exploring the "magic" ball when it had defied their expectations. What's the lesson? If you want to encourage your baby's curiosity, know that surprises aren't just for parties.

6. Babies Know If You're Not Paying Attention
As you can see in this video, when mothers become emotionally unresponsive, infants immediately try to re-engage them with coos and smiles. But when mothers don't respond as they normally would, the infants will sob, shriek and thrust to try to get their attention. This back-and-forth reveals just how remarkably complex the emotional intelligence of infants is and the extreme powers of everyday mother-infant interaction.

7. Babies Are Pretty Good Judges Of Character
You know that babies are expert imitators. But what you might not know is that infants don't imitate just anyone. Beginning around the time of their first birthday, they automatically keep track of the credibility of others and no longer mimic those they deem untrustworthy. This was demonstrated when infants were paired with adults who peeked into a box, expressed excitement, and then invited their infant partners to copy the behavior. The thing is, the box contained a toy for some, but for others it was empty. When the same adults then tried to get the babies to copy them in another exercise, the babies were much more likely to only imitate the "trustworthy" adults.

8. Babies Know A Little About Physics
There are developmental psychologists who spend their days performing magic tricks for babies. They make solid objects hover in midair, go through walls and disappear only to reappear somewhere else. Amazingly, just like adults, babies tend to linger on the physics-defying scenes. They look at them longer than scenes that are exactly the same but don't appear to violate physical laws. From this, we've learned that infants realize that objects are subject to gravity, that objects cannot move through space occupied by other objects and that objects continue to exist when hidden.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 08:11 am
@najmelliw,
Quote:
The scripture in question was written/composed/divined if not BY people of that ancient time and culture, than certainly FOR people of that ancient time and culture.
If a God wanted a book to provide guidance for those who believed in him (she, it, them - as you prefer) then certainly he would be capable of making it applicable to men of any age or culture.

What I wonder about is why people think that any story, book, movie, etc. would contain nothing but the 'right' and no examples of 'here's how it can go wrong' too. The bible contains stories of people that got things terribly wrong as well as right. Why is that a surprise or reason to blow it off as useless?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 08:17 am
@FBM,
Quote:
8 Things You Probably Didn't Know Babies Can Do Before They Turn 12 Months Old

Don't know how accurate that is but, Pretty mystical, huh?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 08:35 am
@Leadfoot,
I don't see anything mystical about it at all. Please explain how you get mysticism from this.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 08:37 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
"Seriously, I'd like to know why the male pronoun would set off alarms."


LOL there is no logic for assigning a sex to an all powerful being and I am laughing over thinking of a god with a female co-partner that have the poor "guy" henpecked.

Or a female god on her period who on having a bad day flood the whole earth saving only one family.

How does anyone give any credit to the christian bible type of a god?
Yeah, people are SO STUPID! Assigning names to storms, calling a boat 'she', calling inventors the 'Father' of this or that. You dumb ass people are HOPELESS!

please...
0 Replies
 
 

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