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Out Foxed

 
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 07:18 pm
So, Euro/Canadian/non-Americans, you've got me curious.
How do you all view yourselves or your governments/cultures.
Is there a right wing / left wing dichotomy?
Are there a significant number of people who object to nudity and/or profanity?
Is organized religion a force or a way of life for a significant number of people?
What would you consider the "moral code" is?
And, if most of the answers are "not really" or "whatever," how do you view your selves and life in terms of morality or religion or "proper" behavior or political leanings?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 05:52 am
I think putting everything down as perception is a neat trick.

Having said that, I think most people other than the followers themselves will say that Fox is definitely conservative; like someone else said, it was designed that way from the get go. The other cable networks are only slightly less so but they just happen to be way right now because it is popular to be that way. It is an insult in America right now to be called a leftist. ABC and other channels like that are having a hard time keeping up with the 24 hour new cable shows and if wasn't for the Sunday morning shows and sixty minutes I don't think they would even be on the air anymore. But they are more leftist in that they are kind of hold overs to a middle of the ground approach that the news used to be before Fox and conservative radio turned the news industry upside down.

I read a Walter Concrite (I forgot how to spell his name) in times magazine once where he said a lot of what I just said so I don't think what I just said can be put down as one person's perception, in fact it is a lot of people's perception.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 07:39 am
fox

The cartoon is the Doonesbury strip by Garry Trudeau, carried daily by many papers in North America and which has garnered him the Pulitzer. His social and political satire is in the tradition of Twain and there is, arguably, no one in American letters doing brighter satire than Trudeau.

The Fox network is effectively an arm of the republican party with a working/advice relationship between Ailes and Carl Rove. On the same day, some six or eight weeks ago, Ralph Reed and Dick Cheney, speaking separately in two different cities both said "I only watch Fox...it gives an accurate accounting of the news." The comments were nearly identical. But that is the way the game is played...repeat the same message until folks begin to think it might be true. It is marketing technique, and not anything other.

To claim that bias or extremism is merely a matter of perception is to make any observation on the matter meaningless. And it would follow, of course, that all claims to a 'liberal media' are also ungrounded and merely matters only of perception. But that refrain won't be dropped because it has proved entirely useful, as evidenced by voice after voice here and elsewhere.

Your claim, fox, that foreign media shows no differences from American media in these matters is simply not so, and I wonder what it is you are reading.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 07:49 am
I often wonder why Republicans call Clinton a liberal, when he took Republican issues and made them his own, repeatedly. He moved America and the Democrats farther right, doing the opposition the greatest favor possible. They were so busy hating him and trying to get him impeached they failed to thank him. It was for this reason and others I voted Green instead of Clinton.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 07:53 am
Quote:
Is there a right wing / left wing dichotomy?


I suppose, though if I were to put together a comprehensive platform of my own beliefs it would be well to the left of the players in either major party.

Quote:
Are there a significant number of people who object to nudity and/or profanity?


I don't know if they're significant, but they can get pretty noisy when the news outlets get them stirred up (e.g., Janet Jackson's floppy flesh).

Quote:
Is organized religion a force or a way of life for a significant number of people?


It would seem so. I'm not much in contact with such folks, though, so it's hard to say so from experience.

Quote:
What would you consider the "moral code" is?


The moral code? I think that is very much a matter of debate, and one of the great polarizing influences of our culture. If I had to sum it up, though, it would probably be, "Kids, hit each other quietly. I'm trying to watch television..."
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 08:12 am
Patiodog Smile I think you probably nailed it with that last one!
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 10:39 am
Today's Doonesbury is the best of the "Outfoxed" series so far. LOL!

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db040723.gif
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 10:57 am
ebeth writes:
Quote:
Yup, boobs are horribly offensive to Americans. Seeing people get blown up isn't. <nods>


I share your recognition of the paradox here. I would wish that my young granddaughter or grand neices and nephews not be subjected to gratuitous nudity/sex OR profanity OR violence when they watch television but for whatever reason violence is less restricted than is nudity or profanity on free television. Makes no sense to me either.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 10:59 am
Blatham writes:
Quote:
Your claim, fox, that foreign media shows no differences from American media in these matters is simply not so, and I wonder what it is you are reading.


I made no such claim. A little precision please. I am entitled to my perception as much as you are entitled to yours.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 12:32 pm
foxfyre wrote:
I know you perceive the American press as tilted right or even maybe far right and to me that is just mind boggling as I read European press and don't see it as all that much different from our own mainstream media.


Damn close, foxy.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 01:48 pm
patiodog wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if Fox is so decidedly slanted right as it is perceived that way because it doesn't go out of its way to point out the sins of conservatism and conservative politicians?


As loaded as that quasi-question is -- yes. That is precisely it. The network's talking heads consistently bash dems and admire repubs, and love war. I'm not stupid enough to think it stems from an ideological commitment on the part of the network: they just know their audience, and they know that they are the only television outlet that caters to that audience. CNN and MSNBC, on the other hand, seem devoted to catching trends and trying to one-up each other on entertainment and glitzy graphics, so neither can confidently claim a core audience.


There was a poll done that showed viewers of Fox news were more liberals/Democrats then conservative/Republicans. It wasn't a huge margin but it was a lead. To say Fox is driven by its viewers is a false hood due to the demographics.

You also can't deny the newspapers have their slant as well. Look at the New York Times and the Los Angles Times. Both of those papers editorial columns are way slanted to the left and those leanings also transcend into the articles, which those papers run.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:04 pm
I'd be very curious to see the source for this poll.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:15 pm
Quote:
Fox's audience has grown explosively since 2000, with most of those gains coming among viewers who describe themselves as Republican or conservative, according to a study released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press.

More than half of Fox's viewers describe themselves as conservative, Pew said.

ABC, CBS and NBC evening news viewers are slightly more likely to be Democrats than Republicans, according to the survey. Pew found little partisan tilt is the audience for MSNBC, the struggling third cable news network.

Four years ago, the same percentage of Democrats (18 percent) as Republicans told Pew they watched Fox regularly. This year, 35 percent of Republicans said they watched Fox regularly, and 21 percent said they watched CNN.

Meanwhile, 28 percent of Democrats described themselves as regular CNN viewers, and 19 percent of Republicans, Pew said. As recently as 1996 -- the year Fox News Channel came on the air -- CNN's audience was more Republican than Democratic.
Source
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:21 pm
That's interesting Walter. It should illustrate that the U.S. media provides something for everybody and there is no need to be alarmed at the success of one or two outlets that our out of the 'mainstream'.

For what it's worth, a recent Rasmussen poll found that a large majority of people who regularly attend church preferred Fox; those who rarely or never attend church preferred CNN. Again, something for everybody.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:22 pm
This from http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=834 (PEW).

I'm retyping the information because the table is in a graphic that I can't link to...

Percent of Fox News Audience who identify themselves as:

Republican: 41%
Democrat: 29%
Independent: 22%
Other/DK: 8%

Conservative: 52%
Moderate: 29%
Liberal: 13%
Other/DK: 6%



Granted, this has changed a lot since 1998 (when the network was a year old), when the breakdown was as follows:

Republican: 24%
Democrat: 36%
Independent: 33%
Other/DK: 7%

Conservative: 40%
Moderate: 34%
Liberal: 20%
Other/DK: 6%
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:26 pm
What is there for the centrists or left of centre. 2 or 4 or 8 right of centre choices does not mean there is something for everyone. Just for all of the right of centre Democrats and further right of centre Republicans.

I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if there was easier access to international news, from foreign networks, in the U.S. i.e. on the basic cable range - or 1 to 2 hours a day on regular network t.v. There's really so little news available in the U.S. Lots of opinion, but not a lot of news. Odd country.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:26 pm
foxfyre wrote:
That's interesting Walter. It should illustrate that the U.S. media provides something for everybody and there is no need to be alarmed at the success of one or two outlets that our out of the 'mainstream'.


But, fox, what happened to this?

foxfyre wrote:
Is it possible that 90% of political ideology is perception more than reality? If a news source doesn't say something uncomplimentary about Clinton or Kerry, it is seen as okay by the left but conservatives see it as having left wing bias.


Is your contention that slant doesn't matter or doesn't exist?
0 Replies
 
Earl Grey
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 03:27 am
Moishe3rd wrote:
So, Euro/Canadian/non-Americans, you've got me curious.
How do you all view yourselves or your governments/cultures.
Is there a right wing / left wing dichotomy?

Yes, but it seem to continuously decrease as major left and right wing parties move toward the center. A few years ago the communist party (who used to get around 4% of the vote) dropped the "communist" attribute. They've been getting much more votes since the name change. Rolling Eyes

Moishe3rd wrote:
Are there a significant number of people who object to nudity and/or profanity?

No. But "significant" really needs to be defined to answer that.

Moishe3rd wrote:
Is organized religion a force or a way of life for a significant number of people?

No. Again the definition problem.
We have a "christian democratic" party that is well established, but small (typically between 5 and 10%). That probably answers the question.
Sweden is a very secular nation. Here you don't say things like "Let's pray for..." unless you are in a church.

Moishe3rd wrote:
What would you consider the "moral code" is?

Hard to say, solidarity comes to mind. Even if the word itself is heavily burdened by the socialist past (still have a socialist government, but it's not the same), I believe it's something swedes think worthy to strive for.

Moishe3rd wrote:
And, if most of the answers are "not really" or "whatever," how do you view your selves and life in terms of morality or religion or "proper" behavior or political leanings?

Looks like a "write an essay on whatever you like" kind of question? Smile

There is very little difference between the political parties. Secularism is the way to go, because I think the dogma of religions are dangerous to the evolution of society.
Sweden is a Christian nation, not in a religious sense but in a cultural sense.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 06:07 am
Quote:
For what it's worth, a recent Rasmussen poll found that a large majority of people who regularly attend church preferred Fox; those who rarely or never attend church preferred CNN. Again, something for everybody.


I wonder if you do this sort of thing on purpose? What is your point in relation to the topic? Are you implying that those that do not watch fox news are a bunch of godless heathens? I go to church 3 times a week every week yet I don't watch fox news.

You said people thinking that Fox is conservative is only a perception; has that opinion changed? Or do you think all those who watch fox news who go to church regular just have a perception that fox is more in tune with their way of thinking?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 07:11 am
Revel for heavens sake. What some of you read into a matter-of-fact statement! My post re church goers was in context with discussions of news slant and polling data. Rasmussen conducted the poll. I mentioned it. I wonder why you would draw such a virulent conclusion from such an innocent statement?

And patiodog, I can see how my two statements above could be construed to be self contradictory except that to state a thing differently does not necessarily negate something else that is stated a different way.

I do believe the U.S. media is largely extremely biased to its and our detriment at times. I also believe some readers are so biased they will read their perspective into a story or article even when it is not written with a biased slant. (Witness Revel's reaction to a statement about polling data related to church goers and the resulting preferences for CNN and Fox.)

The point was that to a Bush-hater, any article or newscast that does not include room for criticism, let alone is complimentary of the President,
will frequently be seen as right-wing propanda. Conversely a Bush supporter will frequently see a news story critical of the President as a left wing diatribe even when the criticsm is warranted.

Therefore, Fox sometimes gets criticism for rightr-wing bias whether or not a particular piece is biased; CNN sometimes get criticsm for left-wing bias whether or not a particular piece is biased.

But on balance, I again say, there's something for everybody and given the plethora of 'left biased' alphabet news sources out there, any suggestion that Fox News is somehow subverting the national information process is simply ludicrous.
0 Replies
 
 

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