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Are Dictatorships more efficient??

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Hans Goring
 
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 01:29 pm
Ok look at Nazi germany (aside from the racits crap) and what it did for germany when it was doing horrible in the thirties the nazi rule made germany the strongest (or close to it) nation in the world (and had many great social programs medical etc...) are we better off with a dictatorship??
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,842 • Replies: 34
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 01:36 pm
Re: Are Dictatorships more efficient??
Hans_Goring wrote:
Ok look at Nazi germany (aside from the racits crap) and what it did for germany when it was doing horrible in the thirties the nazi rule made germany the strongest (or close to it) nation in the world (and had many great social programs medical etc...) are we better off with a dictatorship??


They're more efficient, but less democratic. :wink:

Are we better off with a dictatorship than other alternatives? Not if "we" involves a plurality of people. Jmo, fwiw. Cool
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 01:36 pm
"Are Dictatorships more efficient?? "

The governmental decision making can be. Not necessarily the whole country.

"are we better off with a dictatorship??"

No, we do not have one (neither yourself or I). Nor would we be.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 01:37 pm
It would only be 'better' economically speaking when you can prove democracies, aristocracies or other ways to rule your country are incompetent of bringing a country out of an economical depression.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:09 pm
Let me comment from the perspective of a professional chef. Consider it a political parable. When I'm in the kitchen with a group of staff, some skilled, some not, my forcing complete control over every detail results in a better product, and a better representation for my services (you can insert 'country' here). However, I am left with a haggard, brow-beaten staff who will f*** things up in the future, not for lack of skill, but out of fear. All successful ventures begin with a vision, and benevolent leadership, not dictatorship. A happy workforce is a more efficient workforce. Incidentally, this is not communism, it's simple capitalism with an eye towards the bigger picture.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:10 pm
Right on, Jamie Oliver dude Cool
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:11 pm
It's true. The professional kitchen is a microcosm of the world.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:13 pm
Deep.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:13 pm
But I believe you.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 02:27 pm
I will post an absolutely true story here, to illustrate. Before I went into business for myself, I worked at a lot of restaurants. One I worked at was very busy, and very high-end. It was also host to many stars during the local film festival, and was extremely stressful. One of the perks was that kitchen staff could get free meals, if the management was notified. The senior staff, who worked harder than anyone, often used this as a break during late-night clean up and breakdown of the stoves and such, to chill after a fourteen hour shift, or longer.

So...in comes a new employee, who I am trusted to train. He was the most amenable guy. He told stories of how much he admired his old chef at the hotel he worked for, he had a very professional demeanor, and always came to work clean, and with a tall chefs hat. Okay, we snickered about that a bit. I thought that the best thing about him was that he seemed really dedicated, and was willing to learn.

Then I found out he was in the army reserves. I couldn't say why, but something in my head told me "meltdown alert within a month."

The tall hat was traded for a baseball cap, he stopped laundering his whites, and decided that the senior staff were cruel dictators out to get him. His skills were weak. He couldn't handle the pressure. Then one day, he spots head chef and sous chef dining while we were cleaning up. He says "This is just like Vietnam, where the generals sat down wearing white gloves for dinner while the troops were getting blown up in the jungle!"

Anyway, he was eventually fired, and moved to Europe to find work as a private chef. That's the last I heard of him.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 06:43 am
So to conclude: we get all the crappy cooks who are not good enough to work in Canadian restaurants? Nice story by the way. 'I'm a Viet Nam veteran' - 'I'm an Canadian restaurant veteran'.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 10:14 am
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
So to conclude: we get all the crappy cooks who are not good enough to work in Canadian restaurants? Nice story by the way. 'I'm a Viet Nam veteran' - 'I'm an Canadian restaurant veteran'.


You have plenty of fine chefs in Europe. He went there to be a private chef, basically a cook for some creepy family. Funny thing about his outburst was that he was in diapers when Vietnam was happening. Laughing
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 10:15 am
Sooo...in conclusion, it was military indoctrination, last bastion of fascism in the free world, that forged his opinion of the war.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 12:13 pm
cavfancier wrote:
He went there to be a private chef, basically a cook for some creepy family.

The Adams family pops up. Oh wait, they're American (right?). (...) Must be the Blair family in that case :wink:
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 12:40 pm
Re: Are Dictatorships more efficient??
Hans_Goring wrote:
Ok look at Nazi germany (aside from the racits crap) and what it did for germany when it was doing horrible in the thirties the nazi rule made germany the strongest (or close to it) nation in the world (and had many great social programs medical etc...) are we better off with a dictatorship??



The truth of the matter is that democracies were and are MORE efficient than dictatorships and that was a major factor in the allied victory in WW-II.

Hitler never had the legitimacy to demand the kinds of efforts from the German people and the 100% national committment to winning the war which was in place in America the day after Pearl Harbor.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 12:46 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
It would only be 'better' economically speaking when you can prove democracies, aristocracies or other ways to rule your country are incompetent of bringing a country out of an economical depression.



Funny thing is, there had been at least two American economic depressions prior to the 1930s which were as bad, and the reason you don't read about them is that they went away by themselves after a year or two of being ignored by politicians. There is a compelling case to be made that Roosevelt's programs PROLONGED the depression in America by eight years, i.e. that the guy was worse than nothing (in peacetime).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 12:47 pm
Re: Are Dictatorships more efficient??
swolf wrote:
The truth of the matter is that democracies were and are MORE efficient than dictatorships and that was a major factor in the allied victory in WW-II.

Hitler never had the legitimacy to demand the kinds of efforts from the German people and the 100% national committment to winning the war which was in place in America the day after Pearl Harbor.


That's brilliant answered, swolf, but how does Russia fit in here?
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 02:08 pm
The actuality is that:

You CAN get a great amount of production out of the workers living under a Fascist government.
You CAN ask workers under a Fascist government to work harder and longer hours during peacetime that their Democratic counterparts.

The difference is:

A Fascist state doesn't allow the level of innovation and individual independence that the Democratic workers enjoy.

Workers under a Democratic government will willingly work harder and better than their Fascist counterparts during wartime as long as they are behind the war effort.
___________________________________

My thoughts have always been thus.

For efficiency and organization, Fascism wins out every time.

For innovation, production output and worker willingness, give me Democracy every time.

___________________________________

Or, as one old WW II Luftwaffe pilot commented when asked at what point the Luftwaffe realized that the war was lost:

Quote:
(Add thick German accent here)

Ve realized ve had lost the War when the Americans started sending their planes up unpainted...

because zis meant that they ver building PLANES faster zen PAINT!
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 02:08 pm
Re: Are Dictatorships more efficient??
Walter Hinteler wrote:
swolf wrote:
The truth of the matter is that democracies were and are MORE efficient than dictatorships and that was a major factor in the allied victory in WW-II.

Hitler never had the legitimacy to demand the kinds of efforts from the German people and the 100% national committment to winning the war which was in place in America the day after Pearl Harbor.


That's brilliant answered, swolf, but how does Russia fit in here?


You had a total committment born of desparation in Russia after the German invasion and, to the extent that the commie bosses knew that they could not demand sacrafice from the people in the name of communism, they fell back upon the religious traditions of Russia's past and, as I've heard it, the church regained some of its power and prestige in the process.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 02:20 pm
Stalin identified himself personally with previous Russian leaders such as the medieval prince Dmitri Donskoy and the tsars Ivan IV the Terrible and Peter I the Great.
He also vandalized Russian cultural monuments and destroyed many fine examples of Russian architecture. He was personally responsible for the destruction of some of Moscow's finest cathedrals. It was as if Stalin were trying to expunge Russia's past and to build a new Russia in his own image.

I doubt, btw, that rehabilitating the Russian Orthodox church made him more democratic than any other dictator.
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