4
   

What to do when pulled over by police

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 01:37 am
@BillRM,
Come on Bill. We are not talking about the right of a police officer to defend himself when he is attacked. You and I both agree on this (although I think a good police officer will use the least amount of force necessary to disarm the attacker and remove the threat... you might not agree). But when a police officer is under actual attack, by all means a good police officer will respond with appropriate force to protect himself and the public.

We are talking about the cases where the police are not attacked. When unarmed Black teenagers are being shot by police too many times, you know something is wrong.

Your phrase "hoodlum of any race" made me laugh. The fact is when the police see me, they don't know anything about me. They don't know if I am educated or not. They don't know if I am a criminal or not. They don't know if I am an illegal Canadian immigrant or not. All they know is that I am a middle aged white guy (which, by the way makes me not a hoodlum)

Bill... this guy was recently roughed up by the NY city police department. Does he look like a hoodlum to you?

http://celebrityfitness.menshealth.com/celebrity-fitness/uploads/james-blake-670x350.jpg


BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 06:06 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
We are talking about the cases where the police are not attacked. When unarmed Black teenagers are being shot by police too many times, you know something is wrong.


Unarmed teenagers such as Michael Brown who try to seized officer Darren Wilson gun just a few minutes after doing a strong arm robbery where he manhandle an adult clerk as if he was a child?

Oh yes there is indeed something wrong but not so much with police officers actions but with black teenagers who turn into killers and would be killers to the point that unlike any other group the leading cause of death of black teenagers are other black teenagers.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 06:09 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Your phrase "hoodlum of any race" made me laugh. The fact is when the police see me, they don't know anything about me. They don't know if I am educated or not. They don't know if I am a criminal or not. They don't know if I am an illegal Canadian immigrant or not. All they know is that I am a middle aged white guy (which, by the way makes me not a hoodlum)


They do know however that you do not belong to a group where the leading cause of death is homicide and it highly unlike if possible that you are a gang member or even ex-gang member. Nor are middle age men of whatever race as likely to be as violence as teenagers to mid 20 men.

Somehow I do not think that even black as black can be cops disregards the odds that in a poor black community the young men they are dealing with are far more likely to be gangs members then in other communities.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 06:47 am
@BillRM,
http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/demographics

http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Content/Images/Charts/Demographics-5.png
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 07:31 am
@BillRM,
So Bill, now you seem to be agreeing with me that police are more likely to treat black teenagers as gang members based only on the color of their skin.

Your argument is not that this isn't happening. You are arguing that treating people differently based on the color of their skin is justified.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 08:17 am
@maxdancona,
Treated differently in what manner?

Being more careful and watchful of any teenager/young adult in a area of high homicide rates driven by teenagers/ young adults is not taking any rights away from them. It not the skin color it the history of an area as middle class black areas with low or lower crime rates call for difference policing then high gangs areas of the black community.

You keep not reading that I never stated all black areas just the poor gangs overrun areas of a city need police to be more careful when dealing with citizens

In fact such policing is protecting the non-criminals as well as the police officers.

Your suggestion that police do not do strong policing in high crime areas for fear that they will be consider racists will result in more not less dead teenagers as police are not the factor causing those high death rates!!!!!!!!

In fact your encouraging the picturing of cops as largely racists are encouraging attacks on police officers that will result in more dead cops and black teenagers.

Hell there is zero reason to assumed that a white woman pulled over for a traffic stop and then acting like the black lady that was taken to jail would not also had ended up behind bars!!!!!!
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 08:29 am
@BillRM,
Let's get the point straight here Bill you keep changing the scenario.

Let's consider the case where a police officer comes into contact with a member of a community. And let's say that the officer has no knowledge of the person other than what he sees.

For the sake of argument, this officer treats Black people with suspicion. He questions them harder, he is a little more forceful. He is a more likely to assume the worse with a Black person and more likely to arrest them. This particular officer will be more respectful with a White person. There is a certain behavior that causes this officer to pull a Black person forcibly from the car, but with a White person he will let it slide.

This is a yes or no question. In this hypothetical case, do you believe that the police officer is doing anything wrong (by treating Black people differently than he treats White people based only on the color of their skin)?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 08:46 am
@maxdancona,
Hmm let see I do not buy into the idea that the skin color is the only factor or even an important single factor of how police on the whole view citizens and reacted to them.

Is this person nerves or unfriendly, does he or she have gang tattoos or wearing gang colors and yes is this a very high crime area or not and do not forget age as in is this person in an age range of those more likely to be involved in criminal conduct.

Your claiming that of course the woman would not had ended up in jail for her behaviors if she was white is one without any foundation and two help prime the pump for blacks to reacted badly in any interaction with police officers as after all we all know that police even black police are racists..
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 08:56 am
@maxdancona,
Footnote I once had a fellow employee who happen to be black who claimed that Denny employees was racists as he needed to wait for prolong period to be waited on.

Hell as I told him I had have many times when in a Denny that I have slow service and even seen others being waited on ahead of me.

However being white I just assume bad and careless employees not racists employees while he took the same situation and assume a racial element.

If you assume and look for racial reasons for how you interaction with a restaurant waiter or a police officer you are likely to find it even when it not there.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:14 am
@BillRM,
You didn't answer my question (which was presented as a hypothetical and was clearly a yes or no question). Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the hypothetical. Then there is no reason that you can't explain why you think there aren't any police who treat people differently based only on the color of their skin.

If a single such police officer existed, would what he or she is doing be wrong?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:20 am
@maxdancona,
Oh, referring to another co-worker of mine who was a young Latin man who have the misfortune to being talk into a new hair style by his hairstyles.

Unknown to him at the time that hair style was being used by a Latin gang in the area and he ended up being stopped a number of times and even having his picture taken as a likely/possible gang member.

He was highly annoyed and very happy when his hair had grown out enough to be able to change his style.

Police do consider any number of factors when looking at a citizen. Something wisely sometime not.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:27 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
you think there aren't any police who treat people differently based only on the color of their skin.


Any police you mean all million or so police officers in the US!!!! No I am sure there are a tiny tiny percent of racists police officers including black power racists police officers and religion bigots police officers and so on.

I do not consider however police in general treat people differently base only on skin color and in the case of the lady who was pull over for a minor traffic misdeed and ended up behind bars it is my opinion that her skin color have zero to do with the outcome.

If you look for racial reasons for how you or others are treated you will always find them even when they for the most part does not exist.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:32 am
@BillRM,
You didn't answer my question which was; if there happened to be a police officer who did treat people differently based only on skin color... would you be OK with it, or would you think it was unfair?

Whether you think there are any police officers who do this has nothing to do with the question.

Please answer the question.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:41 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You didn't answer my question which was; if there happened to be a police officer who did treat people differently based only on skin color... would you be OK with it, or would you think it was unfair?


Of course not but you had been trying to claimed that people pull over by a random police officer is more then likely to run into a racist and that is nonsense of the very very first order .

Here is your first posting.

Quote:
That depends. Are you White or Black?


An here is your second posting on this thread.

Quote:
traffic stop of a Black person is far more likely to result in police brutality than a stop of a White person. Math doesn't lie.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:46 am
@BillRM,
Thank you for answering. The two questions are separate

1) Is it wrong for police to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.
2) How often does it happen that police treat differently based on the color of their skin.

At least we agree on the first point, that it is wrong.

We seem to disagree on the second point... where you are saying it never happens, and I contend that it is quite common. And this point, you have two comments of mine that you object to, both of which relate to the second point.

The statistics, and the experience of non-criminals who happen to be Black, strongly support my side of this argument. I stand by both of my statements.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 12:06 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
We seem to disagree on the second point... where you are saying it never happens,


With a millions police officers in the US of course it can and does happen but not in any amount that can allowed people like you to claimed that it common enough to be able to assume that black and white drivers are not in almost all cases treated equally!!!!

Quote:
The statistics, and the experience of non-criminals who happen to be Black, strongly support my side of this argument. I stand by both of my statements.


Let get those links to your statistics/studies as you can and people do used statistic to lied all the time so let look at the details of those studies.

Next your no-criminals blacks may indeed be unhappy with the outcome of traffic stops but that does not mean that the outcome have anything to do with his or her race no matter what the opinion of those stop happen to be.

As I stated on this thread a black co-worker of mine always assume and was convinced that his poor service at Denny was due to his race even those I as white as white can be had from time to time suffer similar bad service at Denny.

McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 12:24 pm
@BillRM,
If it happens once, that's too many.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 12:35 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
If it happens once, that's too many.


An once is more then enough in your opinion to pass judgement on a million or so police officers and come to the conclusion that blacks as a class are mistreated by law enforcement in traffic stops or at any other time?
McGentrix
 
  5  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 01:51 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If it happens once, that's too many.


An once is more then enough in your opinion to pass judgement on a million or so police officers and come to the conclusion that blacks as a class are mistreated by law enforcement in traffic stops or at any other time?


If you don't already see the disproportionate violence against blacks by police, nothing I say here would matter. I do believe that blacks, as a class, are mistreated by police far more often then any other class or race of citizens. Maybe Mexicans in the South West might give blacks a run for their money.

Cops should treat every encounter the same way. Citizens deserve the same respect whether they drive a rusty Buick or a nice Bentley. Freedom of speech and the fourth amendment apply to ALL Americans, not just the white ones. If cops can't/won't figure that out then they should go join the TSA where the rest of our rights go to die.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 03:13 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
If you don't already see the disproportionate violence against blacks by police,


I surely see the disproportionate violence of black gangs members both toward other blacks and the police but not the other way around. As I said the leading cause of deaths of young black men is homicide by other young black men, however strangely such movements as BLM does not care to address that "little" problem.

Quote:
Cops should treat every encounter the same way


An other then your feelings how about some studies that back your opinion up that they do not?

As I said before somehow I question for example that if Michael Brown had been an albino if the outcome of his attacked on officer Wilson would had ended in any different manner.

 

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