2
   

Removing criminals from society without going to their level

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 03:48 pm
[In 16th and 17th century, in England] One option was to offer criminals a pardon if they joined the army or navy. The other was transportation.

I've been in the navy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 09:25 pm
From: Human Rights Watch
Subject: New Orleans: Prisoners Abandoned to Floodwaters
>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:54:32 -0700
>
>New Orleans: Prisoners Abandoned to Floodwaters
>
>(New York, September 22, 2005)?-As Hurricane Katrina began pounding New Orleans, the sheriff's department abandoned hundreds of inmates
imprisoned
>in the city's jail, Human Rights Watch said today.
>
>Inmates in Templeman III, one of several buildings in the Orleans
Parish
>Prison compound, reported that as of Monday, August 29, there were no
>correctional officers in the building, which held more than 600
inmates.
>These inmates, including some who were locked in ground-floor cells,
were
>not evacuated until Thursday, September 1, four days after flood
waters in
>the jail had reached chest-level.
>
>"Of all the nightmares during Hurricane Katrina, this must be one of
the
>worst," said Corinne Carey, researcher from Human Rights Watch.
"Prisoners
>were abandoned in their cells without food or water for days as
>floodwaters rose toward the ceiling."
>
>Human Rights Watch called on the U.S. Department of Justice to conduct
an
>investigation into the conduct of the Orleans Sheriff's Department,
which
>runs the jail, and to establish the fate of the prisoners who had been
>locked in the jail. The Louisiana Department of Public Safety and
>Corrections, which oversaw the evacuation, and the Orleans Sheriff's
>Department should account for the 517 inmates who are missing from
list of
>people evacuated from the jail.
>
>Carey spent five days in Louisiana, conducting dozens of interviews
with
>inmates evacuated from Orleans Parish Prison, correctional officers,
state
>officials, lawyers and their investigators who had interviewed more
than
>1,000 inmates evacuated from the prison.
>
>The sheriff of Orleans Parish, Marlin N. Gusman, did not call for help
in
>evacuating the prison until midnight on Monday, August 29, a state
>Department of Corrections and Public Safety spokeswoman told Human
Rights
>Watch. Other parish prisons, she said, had called for help on the
previous
>Saturday and Sunday. The evacuation of Orleans Parish Prison was not
>completed until Friday, September 2.
>
>According to officers who worked at two of the jail buildings,
Templeman 1
>and 2, they began to evacuate prisoners from those buildings on
Tuesday,
>August 30, when the floodwaters reached chest level inside. These
>prisoners were taken by boat to the Broad Street overpass bridge, and
>ultimately transported to correctional facilities outside New Orleans.
>
>But at Templeman III, which housed about 600 inmates, there was no
prison
>staff to help the prisoners. Inmates interviewed by Human Rights Watch
>varied about when they last remember seeing guards at the facility,
but
>they all insisted that there were no correctional officers in the
facility
>on Monday, August 29. A spokeswoman for the Orleans parish sheriff's
>department told Human Rights Watch she did not know whether the
officers
>at Templeman III had left the building before the evacuation.
>
>According to inmates interviewed by Human Rights Watch, they had no
food
>or water from the inmate's last meal over the weekend of August 27-28
>until they were evacuated on Thursday, September 1. By Monday, August
29,
>the generators had died, leaving them without lights and sealed in
without
>air circulation. The toilets backed up, creating an unbearable stench.
>
>"They left us to die there," Dan Bright, an Orleans Parish Prison
inmate
>told Human Rights Watch at Rapides Parish Prison, where he was sent
after
>the evacuation.
>
>As the water began rising on the first floor, prisoners became anxious
and
>then desperate. Some of the inmates were able to force open their cell
>doors, helped by inmates held in the common area. All of them,
however,
>remained trapped in the locked facility.
>
>"The water started rising, it was getting to here," said Earrand
Kelly, an
>inmate from Templeman III, as he pointed at his neck. "We was calling
down
>to the guys in the cells under us, talking to them every couple of
>minutes. They were crying, they were scared. The one that I was cool
with,
>he was saying ?'I'm scared. I feel like I'm about to drown.' He was
crying."
>
>Some inmates from Templeman III have said they saw bodies floating in
the
>floodwaters as they were evacuated from the prison. A number of
inmates
>told Human Rights Watch that they were not able to get everyone out
from
>their cells.
>
>Inmates broke jail windows to let air in. They also set fire to
blankets
>and shirts and hung them out of the windows to let people know they
were
>still in the facility. Apparently at least a dozen inmates jumped out
of
>the windows.
>
>"We started to see people in T3 hangin' shirts on fire out the
windows,"
>Brooke Moss, an Orleans Parish Prison officer told Human Rights Watch.
>"They were wavin' em. Then we saw them jumping out of the windows . .
.
>Later on, we saw a sign, I think somebody wrote `help' on it."
>
>As of yesterday, signs reading "Help Us," and "One Man Down," could
still be seen hanging from a window in the third floor of Templeman III.
>
>Several corrections officers told Human Rights Watch there was no evacuation plan for the prison, even though the facility had been evacuated during floods in the 1990s.
>
>"It was complete chaos," said a corrections officer with more than 30 years of service at Orleans Parish Prison. When asked what he thought happened to the inmates in Templeman III, he shook his head and said: "Ain't no tellin' what happened to those people."
>
>"At best, the inmates were left to fend for themselves," said Carey.
"At worst, some may have died."
>
>Human Rights Watch was not able to speak directly with Orleans Parish Sheriff Marlin N. Gussman or the ranking official in charge of Templeman III. A spokeswoman for the sheriff's department told Human Rights Watch that search-and-rescue teams had gone to the prison and she insisted that "nobody drowned, nobody was left behind."
>
>Human Rights Watch compared an official list of all inmates held at Orleans Parish Prison immediately prior to the hurricane with the most recent list of the evacuated inmates compiled by the state Department of Corrections and Public Safety (which was entitled, "All Offenders Evacuated"). However, the list did not include 517 inmates from the jail, including 130 from Templeman III.
>
>Many of the men held at jail had been arrested for offenses like criminal trespass, public drunkenness or disorderly conduct. Many had not even
been brought before a judge and charged, much less been convicted.
>
>To view this document on the Human Rights Watch web site, please visit: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/09/22/usdom11773.htm
>
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 09:26 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
From my limited understanding of the history of Australia, many were sent there from England and Ireland for "minor" offenses.


I believe that's a bit of a myth. No doubt you can find cases where someone was transported for a minor crime but the overwhelming cases were serious felons, and I mean serious. But there were some political prisoners as well. Many Fenians were sent to the penal colony at Port Arthur in Tasmania and I believe also some Acadians were transported there. In Hobart there are monuments to the Canadians who were sent to Port Arthur.

ps Craven not all the colonies in Australia were penal colonies, one, South Australia, was a Province settled primarily by free people, many of whom were cheesed off with England (and Ireland).
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 09:31 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
[In 16th and 17th century, in England] One option was to offer criminals a pardon if they joined the army or navy. The other was transportation.

I've been in the navy.


Churchill made a reference to the Royal Navy's history as being full of "rum, sodomy and the lash". Apparently it wasn't multiple choice.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2005 11:47 pm
goodfielder wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
From my limited understanding of the history of Australia, many were sent there from England and Ireland for "minor" offenses.


I believe that's a bit of a myth. No doubt you can find cases where someone was transported for a minor crime but the overwhelming cases were serious felons, and I mean serious. But there were some political prisoners as well. Many Fenians were sent to the penal colony at Port Arthur in Tasmania and I believe also some Acadians were transported there. In Hobart there are monuments to the Canadians who were sent to Port Arthur.

ps Craven not all the colonies in Australia were penal colonies, one, South Australia, was a Province settled primarily by free people, many of whom were cheesed off with England (and Ireland).


And are now cheesed off with Sydney and Canberra.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2005 10:14 am
I love Sydney, and hope to someday revisit that wonderful city. Don't know if I'll be able to do the bridge climb again, but enjoy the whole town and what it offers visitors.
0 Replies
 
 

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