A question for athiests

Hey snood! I totally missed this one. Sorry about that! Thank you for welcoming me! I understand what you are saying, but I won't block him or anyone else unless their obnoxiousness becomes unbearable. I actually hold no ill thoughts or feelings towards him or anyone else. What people are failing to see here is that my purpose here is not to make friends or enemies or even convince anyone of what I personally believe. I am here for personal reasons to answer for myself some questions I have.

If I make some friends, great! I would actually like that! If I make some enemies, oh well. Life goes on and so must I. Believe it or not I have actually looked at many things he has posted over a course of time. He's a pretty intelligent guy. I believe he could have some very good input to some things if he wanted to. It is unfortunate that he has so quickly singled me out and made his decisions about me. I think I would have enjoyed conversing with him on a more mature level, but if he can't or won't, then we won't. And that's OK too.

The first definition you provided "not known" is the antonym of to Know, which I'm sure you will agree, is explicitly related to Knowledge.

But putting the definition of words aside, my primary point was that when talking about the origins of the Universe the usage of "Unknown" does not carry with it the implication that some "thing" exists which is unknown. The precursor to the Universe, if such a thing even exists, is a profound unknown to us. And that's ok.

Lol Oh my gosh. How did I not see that about the first definition! Unraveling years of brainwashing is proving to be more challenging than I imagined it would be! So now I have another question to ask if you don't mind... You said, "The precursor to the Universe, if such a thing even exists, is a profound unknown to us. And that's ok."

We live in a world where there are cycles. The seasons change, people are born and die, animals are born and die. Pretty much everything NOT man made lives and dies in one way or another. So if everything contained in this universe has a life cycle of sorts, would it be fair then to say the universe itself would have one? Is there evidence out there that the universe is regenerating itself? I have never considered this before.

Don't be ridiculous, Rosborne has not been brainwashed, and to resort to such underhand tactics suggests you're losing the argument.

You're not the only poster to claim everyone who doesn't agree with them is brainwashed, that only they have the answer.

You've got a choice, you can be a religious person like Neo, or you can be a religious nutter like Quahog and a whole other bunch of pathetic false prophets on A2K.

If you choose the latter don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone. And don't expect to be welcomed with open arms by the nutters either. They don't like other prophets stepping on their toes, witness the recent exchange between Romeo and Squeaky.

Can I be the only poster that claims everyone who does agree with me is brainwashed?

Ummm Izzy, I was talking about myself. But hey, where is this exchange between squeaky and romeo? I would be interested in reading it! Can ya link me to it?

Oh and BTW, I will continue to be me which is unlike anyone you've probably met, regardless of who likes it or not.

The brainwashing course you offer is second to none.

Have you any idea how pretentious that sounds? You have no idea how many people and how varied they are.

For your information I have met at least three people, and they were a pretty varied bunch I can tell you.

interesting how we all read things differently.

I read that as onevoice recognizing that they themselves had been brainwashed.

reading later posts by onevoice suggests your interpretation - though I obviously like mine better

Oh. I see. You are one of those. Ok. Well, I don't really care to waste time talking to someone who listens but doesn't hear. By the way... That was my point. We are ALL unique, yet somehow you managed to attempt to compare me to others you do not like. But hey... If that's the case, by all means, feel free to use your block button any time!

Hey look Izzy! Here is some one who actually listens and DOES hear! Maybe you ought to be more like her! Lol Thanks ehbeth!

I'm not.

Obviously, mine is the only reliable opinion voiced here--witness the constant persecution i suffer. A voice crying the wilderness, etc. . . .

For what it's worth, sir - and I know you don't value my opinion - but I feel your pain.

And, as usual, I suggest a libation. Were you here I would gladly caffeinate you.

Cream?
Sugar? I prefer Kleen Raw.

Although black is good in the AM.

The way science understands the Universe is through mathematics and physics. And in that sense the Universe is constrained by the limits of those methodologies. Within the world of science there is no theory, no physics, no math which describes anything beyond the boundary of the equations used to represent the Big Bang.

There are independent theories (m-brane, and holographic and others) which posit conditions in a different type of Universe which might result in fluctuations which might create our type of Universe. These theories are an attempt to suggest possibilities for how our Universe formed. But there is no way to test these theories from within our own. At the moment, the mathematic models we use to describe our Universe are only relevant within the physics of this Universe. They are intrinsically self-contained with no mechanism to transcend the boundary between what we know and what we don't.

This doesn't mean that there can't be something outside of our Universe or Before our Universe, something with different physics and different rules, but we have no way to observe it or interact with it so we don't know anything about it. And even if we could, the tools of our Universe, even our thoughts, might not be able to interact with it in any meaningful way.

The best we can ever hope for is to come up with a theory which describes a different Universe which might have given rise to our Universe. Then we can say maybe "this" is the way it is out there... but we will never know for sure.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me rosborne This is all a bit overwhelming for me.. I really should have done this in the first place and shared how it is I came to be here, asking these questions. I honestly had no ill intent, though after thinking about it I realized I have responded entirely too harshly to many of the those who have come in with unnecessary force. For that I apologize. Here's my dilemma. I got saved in my late teens. Things were really good for a long time. Then the pastor of that church died and the one who took over... Well, things started getting quite confusing. He was pretty power hungry to say the least. He was actually abusive in some ways. In my mid 20's despite all the bologna that was being taught, God healed some physical scars from a childhood abuse.

In my late 20's I move and began to see what the rest of the church was like... And boy was I in for a surprise. Man. If I wasn't being treated like a leper because I didn't know someone who was in a clique that went there, they were begging for my money, and I even went to one where they passed out tithe buckets to the homeless people they were "ministering" to, telling them it was their responsibility to support the ministry to keep it going! All kinds of wacky doctrines, and the primary thing I noticed was everyone seemed to just blindly follow whatever the preacher said, because he said it.

This went on for many years. I do have some stories. I have seen it all. From being accused of being possessed and actually faking my way through an exorcism to try to keep those "Christian friends" two months after being saved, to people rolling on the floor roaring like a lion. No joke. After a while it all just became too much. The judgement, the criticism, the self-righteousness, hypocrisy. I left the church as a whole. I even made a futile attempt to sway my thinking to anything but God. I just couldn't. So then I spent several more years just trying not to care about anything. Still just didn't work.

Which leads me to right here. I came here after that discussion honestly just looking for some answers. I know that I know that I know that there are still some twisted things in my brain. I want to weed them out. I've been trying to do it on my own because I don't like asking for help. Primarily because I have spent the last 15 years being wacked from every angle you could think of and I am tired of it. I do still believe in God, but I also know there are greater truths to be discovered due to some of the false things I have believed. I just want help doing it, that's all. I am sorry to those I have been harsh to or about. It really was unnecessary on my part. It's almost like a PTSD reaction sometimes. My lips are quicker than my brain... Lol I do hope you all will forgive me. I'm doing the best I can, but to be perfectly honest, I am feeling pretty spiritually exhausted at this point and it can indeed cause me to be unpleasant at times.

Onevoice said- "I am feeling pretty spiritually exhausted at this point.."
------------------------------------------------------------------

You've been mixing with assorted losers and phoney christians for far too long, hence the warning- "He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
So steer well clear of them and try to find good strong people in your life (or on the internet) so their strength will rub off on you..
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)

Gosh, I don't know if this is even going to come out sounding right, but While I need help in the discovery process, this is a journey I have to walk alone. Does that even make sense? There are questions I have that many of the christiany people won't like. I don't look at people who don't believe in God like they do. Well I do my best not to. I don't see people who don't believe as any less valuable than someone who does. It saddens me when people do that. It's just so wrong.

Onevoice said- "While I need help in the discovery process, this is a journey I have to walk alone. Does that even make sense?"
-------------------------------------------------------------

Sort of, but if we were hiking across the wilderness I'm sure we'd like to have Bear Grylls helping us..
Same with our hike through life, the Bible is a 'spiritual survival manual', and Jesus is a good instructor to have with us, so as long as you've got him and God with you, you'll never be alone..

"He shall give his angels charge over you to keep you safe" (Psalm 91:11)

Nice.