Thomas
 
  2  
Mon 14 Dec, 2015 07:11 pm
@onevoice,
onevoice wrote:
I am curious... If science does not call the universe and all its contents a "creation" what does it call it?

When I worked as a scientist, we just called it "the universe".
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 14 Dec, 2015 07:32 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Being comfortable with "I don't know" doesn't mean that you need to stop trying to figure things out. Continuing to study and explore is the scientific way.
Jeez! You and KBM are a scream.

So my question is - Will you let me know when you guys find God in your microscope, telescope or test tube?


You bet! It'll be all over the news and somebody will have won a Nobel for it. However, since there aren't many scientists promoting the god claim with your zeal, they don't bear the burden of evidence. Those making the claim do. So, how about letting us know when your god shows up somewhere so we can have a look, too.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Mon 14 Dec, 2015 07:44 pm
@BillyBarnes89,
BillyBarnes89 wrote:

Nonetheless...Simply being comfortable with the unknown, is an excellent definition of faith.
How do you figure that?
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Mon 14 Dec, 2015 08:03 pm
@BillyBarnes89,
Quote:
To me, I feel like "born from the unknown" sounds like faith.

Saying that you are born from the unknown is an acknowledgment of your lack of knowledge or information, and cannot really be considered an example or an act of faith. Claiming to be born from the unknown is an honest statement.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 15 Dec, 2015 01:47 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
onevoice wrote:
I am curious... If science does not call the universe and all its contents a "creation" what does it call it?

When I worked as a scientist, we just called it "the universe".


I don't think you're goihg to get a replay from the author. Although she was active here for a while, i think she has "moved on."

It is interesting, however, to contemplate the attitude that insists upon a creation. At some point, and probably many thousands of years ago, humans would have been looking around at their world and wonderful from whence it derived. The notion of creation is rather a simple-minded response to their world's existence. It must have run something like this: I make my tools, my clothing, my leather and hides, my bone and antler and wooden implements--who then made this larger world. At that point is the jumping off point for shamanism. I doubt that anyone thinking like that was interested in discussing whether or not the question was valid, but rather, looking for an answer to it. Even in such a early stage in human development, people were likely to be prone to skepticism. The shaman would have to have plausible. For example, proposing the sun as god begs the question of how things came to be on the earth, given that the sun is observably remote. That would have required at the least an intercessor. It would have required an agent for the sun god who was available to work here on the earth. I am certain that just as humans have always produced intelligent individuals, they have also always produced skeptical individuals. They would have run the gamut from the mildly skeptical to the unbelieving who would not even accept the shaman's god concept. By the time the temple societies arise, about 6000 years ago, the apostate who questions the very existence of gods would either have to keep his or her mouth shut, or rise to a position of power in the priesthood.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 15 Dec, 2015 06:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Leadfoot quote:
"You know what Frank, If I spent my money on $5000 a night whores, I'd feel like I got a better deal than spending my time replying to this post of yours."



At $5000...I would hope so
I was just checking your values.

Not that I think it is 'wrong', but I would get nothing from paying for sexual intimacy at any price. My time is worth more than nothing though.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 15 Dec, 2015 06:24 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Leadfoot quote:
"You know what Frank, If I spent my money on $5000 a night whores, I'd feel like I got a better deal than spending my time replying to this post of yours."



At $5000...I would hope so
I was just checking your values.

Not that I think it is 'wrong', but I would get nothing from paying for sexual intimacy at any price. My time is worth more than nothing though.


Whatever!

But as I said, I thought I was agreeing with you.
0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Wed 16 Dec, 2015 11:26 am
@Setanta,
No. I have not "moved on". I have rather been struggling with some things, and chose not to bring those things here. I do not wish to burden anyone with my personal turmoil. However, in the midst of this chaos I am finding a much more defined definition of myself. Understanding a little better those things that matter... And those things that really just... don't. This would be one of those things that doesn't really matter in the bigger scheme of things.

We can call " it" whateer we want to. We can acknowledge a creation made by a great Creator, or we can choose to disengage completely from all such thinking. Either way doesn't change the actual truth. That is something that can only be reconciled in an individuals heart. To find the truth. Isn't that what we all want? Aren't we all on a journey of sorts to find some truth in our lives?

Well, for me, that is the common denominator for us all. The thing that causes me to look around and not see "sinners" who need to "turn or birn", but rather fellow humans, searching... Just like me. Not enemies against " my truth", but friends who I would extend my hand out to help in any way I could because I'm no "better" than anyone else in this world. Love changes everything. Everything. I know because it changed me, which by human standards would have literally been impossible to do.

So I sit... Quietly for now... Waiting. I am not sure for what exactly. I am only sure that I will not repeat previous steps in my life. They didn't get me anywhere last time, and I'm about tired of spinning my tires and going nowhere... However, there has not been a day that has gone by that A2K has not crossed my mind. My heart is still with you all, even when I'm not. That's the truth. Smile




Setanta
 
  2  
Wed 16 Dec, 2015 01:25 pm
@onevoice,
I was speculating in the absence of data.

You are a talib on your tariquat, as the Sufis would say.
onevoice
 
  1  
Wed 16 Dec, 2015 01:32 pm
@Setanta,
A what on the what as the who would say? Lol... Please excuse me.while I looked that up! Hehe

...

...

Edit:

Got it! Set... You are golden. Smile

Welp... I'm off to see the wizard... Lol
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 16 Dec, 2015 01:38 pm
@onevoice,
Talib is a seeker, it's also a cognate for a student. Tariqat is the spiritual journey that everyone takes, whether they know it or not. All this is courtesy of Sufism.
onevoice
 
  1  
Wed 16 Dec, 2015 01:49 pm
@Setanta,
Thanks for putting a smile on my face today Set. Smile Boosted me just enough to have the gas to do what needs to be done today. Smile Man I love this place.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2024 11:39 pm
@onevoice,
Quote:
I am curious... If science does not call the universe and all its contents a "creation" what does it call it?


As this question was posted some nine years ago, if onevoice is still around or if anyone is even interested, here is my answer to the question, 'What does science call the universe.'

Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

If you observe the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was, according to the most popular theory of the creation of this universe, pure electromagnetic energy, which, In my Opinion, was spewed out of a WHITE HOLE, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, or, according to scientific measurements (180 million trillion, trillion degrees Fahrenheit), which electromagnetic energy has been converted to that which we perceive as matter, only to be reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch, when all will be ripped apart atom by atom, subatomic particle by subatomic particle, and fall as fire into the Great Abyss, or Black Hole Where it will be crushed back into the singularity of origin.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

So, there you go, one branch of science calls the universe, ‘A GREAT THOUGHT.’
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2025 09:29 pm
@The Anointed,
A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe.

Sometime in our eternal past, somewhere in this region of the eternal and boundless cosmos, stray matter was falling into a spinning Black Hole and being torn apart and reconverted to the photons from which that material was created, while stretching the rubbery fabric of space-time into a funnel tornado like worm hole at the bottom of which, those photons were crushed so closely together by the enormous gravitational forces, creating a singularity in which there was no space in which there could be no momentum and therefore no time.

Eventually, the mass at the bottom of the stretched out rubbery space-time fabric, ruptured releasing the singularity, which was spatially separated as it exploded out of the rip that we call a White hole, as an expanding cloud of liquid like electromagnetic energy, the quantum of which was photons, which have zero mass and no electric charge, but which carry angular and linear momentum.

Initially, the temperature of the expanding cloud of photons, protons and electrons, was in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, in fact our scientists claim that the universal temperature at the instant of the Big Bang, was 100 million trillion, trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion, trillion degrees Fahrenheit.

It was from that expanding cloud of electromagnetic energy that the first generation of our universe was created. In Genesis 2: 4; the six creative days of our universe are described as the six generations of our world.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Mon 15 Sep, 2025 10:12 pm
@The Anointed,
Just as you begin your journey to the grave, that black and bottomless pit on the day you are born, so too this universal body began the process of returning to the singularity of origin “The Big Crunch” at the moment of “The Big Bang.”

Our ancient ancestors expressed the belief that our scientists of today are just beginning to come to terms with, and that is, that following each “Big Bang” there comes the “Big Crunch,” when this universe is condensed once again, into the supposedly infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated, only to reappear at a later point in time. According to the ancients, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, “SIX SPOKES representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
I see the six spokes which represent six forms of existence as the biblical six generations of the universes, which was completed with the creation of Modern man.

A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Mon 15 Sep, 2025 10:57 pm
@The Anointed,
A Black Hole is a massive system so centrally condensed that the force of gravity prevents everything within it, even light from escaping. But how many Black Holes are out there in the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos? How much dark matter is hidden within those Black Holes? Nobody knows, science is still coming to grips with Black Holes, which are believed to be at the centre of all Spiral and elliptical galaxies, and Black Holes devour everything of lesser mass that comes in contact with them.
Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of some three to four million suns, and if you think that’s a big black hole, consider this; “In December of 2019, astronomers announced the discovery of one of the biggest black holes ever measured in the nearby universe. That black hole is at the centre of an elliptical galaxy in galaxy cluster Abel 85, and has been calculated to be 40 billion times the mass of our sun, which is equivalent to two-thirds the mass of the 100-billion stars in the Milky Way and is roughly the size of our entire solar system.”
Our Milky Way and the nearby Andromeda Galaxy, which are two spiral galaxies are on a collision course, and when these two spiral galaxies collide, they can merge and form an elliptical galaxy, which elliptical galaxies can collide and merge again to form an even larger elliptical galaxy. The central Black holes of those elliptical galaxies also merge and combine to make one massive Black Hole, and those Massive galaxies, which are called ‘core galaxies’ are believed to be the main attractive force at the center of galactic clusters, which clusters are being attracted to a super Duper gravitational anomaly within the Shapley Super Cluster, which is the largest concentration of galaxies in our nearby universe that forms a gravitational anomaly that is pulling itself together instead of expanding with the universe.
It is believed that pairs of spiral galaxies form elliptical galaxies, pairs of those elliptical galaxies form cored elliptical galaxies, and a pair of cored galaxies formed Holmberg 15A, and that this series of mergers also created the ultramassive black hole in its center, a monster nearly as big as our solar system with the mass of around 40 billion suns.
Around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were created from the collapse of Gigantic stars that had formed in the galaxy, or were once at the centre of other lesser galactic bodies that have merged with ours. There are perhaps twenty small galaxies that orbit the Milky Way, like moths around a flame.
The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy which orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy.
The earlier explanations as to a mysterious stream of Gas, which appeared to stretch from them to our galaxy, was the result of gravitational interaction between the two Magellanic clouds, and so, was thought to be coming from them. But researchers from the Leibniz institute for Astrophysics in Germany, taking into account, the best understanding of the diffuse hot Gas that surrounds our Milky Way [Its Corona], couldn’t get that stream of Gas to form, so they came to the conclusion that they simply don’t understand the Milky way’s corona very well. But another possible explanation put forward by them, is that, rather than originating from the Magellanic Clouds, that stream of Gas could be coming from a different Galaxy altogether, which is being devoured, as it plunges into our Milky Way.
The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes, dying stars, and planets within this galaxy. And yet our galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies that are falling in toward the super gravitational anomaly that is called the ‘Great Attractor’. And even that which is called the ‘Great Attractor’ is flowing toward the Shapley Supercluster? Is there something at the core of the ever-growing Shapley Supercluster that is pulling all the galaxies in our particular section of this boundless cosmos to itself?
Or is it simply the gravitational attraction of the galaxies to each other that has caused the Shapley concentration to grow to the size it is today and continues to grow, as the other galactic clusters in our region are being gathered to it, while the more distant clusters appear to be accelerating away?
Enoch, from a previous world that was destroyed by water, is the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and was anointed as his successor, who was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, (Black Hole) which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing. It was from the words of righteous Enoch and not the Hebrew or Christians bibles, from where Peter received the information as revealed in 2 Peter 3: 10; that the day of the lord will come like a thief. On that day the heavens will disappear with a shrill noise, and the heavenly bodies will burn up and be destroyed, and the earth and everything in it will vanish.
When this happens, all the supposed material plus the information gathered in this cycle of universal activity, in what remains of our condensing galactic cluster, will descend into the open mouth of the last enormous black hole and all will be crushed back into the singularity from which it originated, with all the information gathered in that cycle to resurrect that world, that is the next generation, which will continue in the eternal process of growth/evolution, etc.
0 Replies
 
 

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