1
   

Is Bush's past now present? Dry Drunk?

 
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 08:51 am
I have some experiance with people who had serious drinking problems and can tell you for a fact that brain damage does result from heavy drinking of booz over a long period of time. You choose to reject out of hand any alligations of Bushes mental imparment. I choose to regard the article as something interesting and something to think about in relation to his attitude and actions. I notice that you are listed as a moderator which I thought was someone who was supposed to be fairminded therefore I was surprised at your reynolds wrap crack. Even Bill understood the reference as did I but I thought I would see how far you would go with it. Bill thinks you were kidding, I do not.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 01:27 pm
This thread contains proof that many who don't like W will believe just about anything written about him... if it is derogatory.

"While more than 10 million Americans are similarly afflicted, (by heavy drinking) only one has been elevated to the presidency."

According to The Health of the Presidents (1994) by John M. Bumgarner, the following were heavy drinkers:
Martin Van Buren, Franklin Pierce (died of cirrhosis),
James Buchanan,
Andrew Johnson (appeared drunk at the inauguration in 1865),
Ulysses S. Grant,
Chester A. Arthur. Source

And these were heavy drinkers while in the White House.


"Arguably the least experienced of any president..."

Of course, anything is arguable. It's arguable that Bush is the greatest of American presidents.

As for the argument that he is the least experienced of any president:

President
Occupation prior to elected offical
Other Governmental Positions

Zachary Taylor
General
None

Abraham Lincoln
Lawyer
Elected to Illinois State Legislature, 1834
Member of U.S. House of Representatives, 1847-49


Ulysses Grant
Genral
None

Rutherford B Hayes
Lawyer
Member of U.S. House of Representatives, 1865-67
Governor of Ohio, 1868-72
Governor of Ohio, 1876-77


Chester A Arthur
Appointed Collector of the Port NY by US Grant
Vice President James Garfield

Grover Cleveland
Lawyer
Sheriff of Erie County, NY, 1870-73
Mayor of Buffalo, NY, 1882
Governor of New York, 1883-85


Benjamin Harrison
Lawyer
United States Senator, 1881-87

William McKinnley
Lawyer
Member of U.S. House of Representatives, 1877-91
Governor of Ohio, 1892-96


Woodrow Wilson
Teacher
Governor of New Jersey, 1911-13

William Harding
Editor
Member of Ohio State Senate, 1900-04
Lieutenant-Governor of Ohio, 1904-06
United States Senator, 1915-21


Herbert Hoover
Engineer
Secretary of Commerce, 1921-23 (under Harding)
Secretary of Commerce, 1923-28 (under Coolidge)


Dwight D Eisenhower
General
None

John F Kennedy
Lawyer
Member of U.S. House of Representatives, 1947-53
United States Senator, 1953-61


Jimmy Carter
Farmer
Georgia State Senator, 1963-66
Governor of Georgia, 1971-75


Ronald Reagan
Actor
Governor of California, 1966-74

Bill Clinton
Lawyer
Arkansas Attorney General, 1976-78
Governor of Arkansas, 1978-80, 1982-92


George W Bush
Businessman
Governor of Texas, 1995-2000

Source

So, yes it is arguable that Bush is the least experienced of presidents, but then it's also arguable that all of these other fellows were.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 02:20 pm
You're playin' the victim, here, rabell22, and apparently you still don't "Get It" ... the objection and criticism applied to the article fous on the manner of presentation. I don't buy the premis, as I mentioned, but, again as I have mentioned, that's immaterial to the point the premis, and your defense of it, were not effectively or legitimately developed. The shiny hat reference was in response to your absurd allegation " ... The Bush whitehouse has all the proof classified as state secrets."

The author of the article and you in your defense of the article have well established you both feel strongly about the matter. Neither of you have provided any academically valid, forensically correct validation of your assertions.

Now, lets take a look at your most recent response:

you wrote:
I have some experiance with people who had serious drinking problems

Would this be personal, anecdotal experience, or clinico-academic study, training, and research?
That would be quite pertinent to the establishment of your credentials in the matter.

Quote:
and can tell you for a fact that brain damage does result from heavy drinking of booz over a long period of time.


I would have no reason to doubt, and plenty of reason to accept, that pathologic, habitual, long-term substance abuse in general, regardless of abused substance, may and typically does result in all sorts of psychologic and physiologic impairment. So does overeating. Neither point is in contention.

Quote:
You choose to reject out of hand any alligations of Bushes mental imparment.


No, I rejected out of hand the manner in which the allegation that such might be so was presented and supported, and on the same basis decline to accept, as well as specifically rebut, your defense of same.

Quote:
I choose to regard the article as something interesting and something to think about in relation to his attitude and actions.

Cool. Me too. I just think differently about it than do either you or the author.

Quote:
I notice that you are listed as a moderator which I thought was someone who was supposed to be fairminded therefore I was surprised at your reynolds wrap crack.


Your mileage may vary, but I'm unaware of any requirement encompassed within the concept of "Fair Minded" that requires endorsement of the absurd. Tolerance of the absurd, yes; anyone is welcome to express or defend absurdity, or to consider, with or without valid basis, just about any thing or condition to be absurd. Note one more time if you will that I did not opine the premis itself and per se was absurd, but that its presentation was absurd, notwithstanding my personal assessment that evidence as available in fact does not support the allegations central to the thrust of the article. I doubt impairment as alledged in fact is symptomatically evidenced by the individual against whom those allegations were levelled. Further, I would submit contraindication of impairment, as evidenced by my own observation of the behavior exhibitted by the subject individual at discussion; I contend "that boy's all there", whether or not you or anyone else happens to like where that "there" is. He ain't where some folks are at, obviously, but that is about the only valid complaint those folks have; they neither share nor appreciate his opinions and positions. Alledging he is "Crazy/Dumb/Evil" , as so strongly is the want of some folks, is, to my mind, in and of itself tinfoil hat stuff.

Quote:
Even Bill understood the reference as did I but I thought I would see how far you would go with it.


As far as you care to chase it, I suppose. Frankly, I tired of it a while back, but being fairminded, I figure since you're obviously having so much fun with it, I'd humor you.

Quote:
Bill thinks you were kidding,


I doubt that very much

Quote:
I do not.


I don't doubt that a bit.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 10:31 pm
Thanks for your permission to believe as I want too. As to wether or not you think there isent positive proof of this alligation I agree that your right. Im sure that if there had been an allegation that President Regan was suffering from alhemiers during his presidency it would have been denied just as most presidential sickness has been covered up by both the dems and the repubs. since you have given me permission to believe as I want to I think Ill seriously consider the article.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 12:12 am
I didn't give you anything. Permission to believe as one wishes is an absurd notion, as folks will believe as they will by nature, regardless whether that belief be endorsed or proscribed by authority, secular or religious. Permission to express one's beliefs is entirely another thing, and entirely beyond my capability to grant or deny. I merely reminded you we all had the right to hold and express our beliefs, positions, and opinions, including but not limited to our beliefs, positions, and opinions regarding the beliefs, positions, and opinions held and expressed by others. That may strike some as a quaint notion, and strike others as a dangerous notion, but it strikes others as a notion in which to take both pride and comfort, and worth defending to the death.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 12:20 am
timberlandko wrote:


I submit finally that contentions such as those you present and defend are forensically indefensible, and in fact are contraindicated by objective, academically and philosopohically valid analysis of the available evidence.



So, um, other that, you don't have much to disagree with, Timber?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 12:24 am
'bout sums it up, rog ... that's my opinion.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 08:49 am
At last we agree on something. As an aside I had two good friends who were alcoholics and have some experience with the results of this addiction. "Were" as in to the death not as in the AAA.
0 Replies
 
 

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