A God That Makes Sense?

@Glennn,

Quote:

@Leadfoot,
So, the Bible does not support the idea that there is a place of eternal torture for those who did not believe in this God.

Not by my reading. There is a hell, but is is only the final destruction (death) of Satan and all who didn't make through both rounds of this test.
It speaks of it flames rising up forever and ever but that is metaphor for saying that this death is absolutely permanent and irrevocable.

In other places when not speaking in metaphor it says plainly that 'The wages of sin is death.' The definition of sin is yet another story. It's not what organized religions claimed.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Then, oblivion it is.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

As you wish. Sovereignty is yours.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

As you wish.

As it is.

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I feel that I should clarify my position. I do not believe that there is oblivion/nonexistence after the body ceases. I wanted to know whether those who believe in the biblical God believe that nonbelievers will suffer eternal torment or whether they believe that nonbelievers will simply no longer exist.

I ask this because those are the only two choices available to those who hold the idea of the existence of the biblical God.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glenn wrote:

. . . I do not believe that there is oblivion/nonexistence after the body ceases

You should consider Solomon's words:

Quote:

5
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

6
Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)

This does not deny belief in the resurrection:

Quote:

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice+ 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28,29)

1 Reply

@Joe Sixpack,

Yeah, but at any rate, those who have no further reward whose name is forgotten will not experience it as a loss or regret because they will not be experiencing anything. So, in essence, lack of reward and forgotten name is a consequence of no consequence.

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@Glennn,

Just curious. You say that we don't die with the body but you don't agree with the bible version. Is you view that you reincarnate or .. .? It is perfectly OK to postulate a God that reincarnates. That would be fine if true but I could never make sense of 'not remembering past lives' that most reincarnation believers embrace.

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@Glennn,

"The wage sin pays is death." - Romans 6:23
You can view it as a cosequence, if it suits you.

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@Leadfoot,

Well, I feel that one of two things is true. Either consciousness springs forth from matter, or matter springs forth from consciousness. My opinion is that the latter is true. And if that is the case, then it seems to me that the body is only a vehicle or conduit for consciousness. Beyond that, who knows?

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@neologist,

As I said, death is a consequence of no consequence.

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http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/11266672_10153289563701605_3962070745974763044_n.jpg

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Is you view that you reincarnate or .. .? It is perfectly OK to postulate a God that reincarnates.

The ultimate reality and its purpose is too vast for a three-dimensional being such as myself to translate into a three-dimensional view.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

As I said, death is a consequence of no consequence.

Yeah, but I'd rather not, if you don't mind.

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@FBM,

You understand that makes no point either way, right?

What we believe cannot make the truth go away.

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@neologist,

I think that was the point.

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@FBM,

There really was this time when I fervently wished/wanted God not to be there. But he didnt go away so...

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@Leadfoot,

Got any evidence that such a thing exists outside your mind? If not, why should a rational person believe that it does?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

That's another example of charlatanism, we poor unenlightened slobs just don't understand. Squeaky does it all the time.

Thank you. Smile

Problem is Izzy, I never said or implied any of those things. The only implication I want behind anything I say is love, and the best interest of who ever I am speaking to or of. I think the problem here is I don't view you as you view yourself or have been told you are viewed in the past.

Quote:

I suppose asking you to explain just what it is we don't understand would be a waste of time, vague unsubstantiated nonsense beats facts and evidence any time.

No. Not really... The problem here is... Ummm... I am not exactly sure what the answer is right now. I won't speak to that until I have what needs to be said, instead of what I might really want to say... Wink

lol

1 Reply

@onevoice,

onevoice wrote:

Problem is Izzy, I never said or implied any of those things.

Yes you did.

onevoice wrote:

you don't understand.

0 Replies

A God That Makes Sense?

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